Tom Hopkins: Mastering the Art of Selling

Armed with drive, determination and knowledge, Tom Hopkins built his sales volume to over $14 million within five years. Keep in mind folks, we’re talking about 1970 something here. Soon word of Tom’s record breaking sales success brought repeated requests to conduct sales training seminars across the country. That’s when Tom decided that teaching was what he wanted to do. In 1976, Tom founded Tom Hopkins International and dedicated his life and his company to teaching and inspiring others through his seminars, books, and audio and video training programs. Today, over 35,000 corporations and millions of professional sales people throughout the world utilize his professional sales training materials. Even more, over 3 million people on five continents have attended his high-energy live seminars and he is the author of 12 books including How to Master the Art of Selling which has sold over 1.5 million copies worldwide.

So, NAPMA members, there’s a little bit of background on today’s very special guest. He’ll be joining us this month and next to give you and your staff some fundamental tips to improve your sales. Tom Hopkins, welcome to the Sounds of Success. Well, thank you, Rob, and I’m excited to be with you and all of your listeners today. Well, I must say it’s truly an honor to have you with us here today. I’m extremely excited about this interview. Now, for starters, Tom, when you first began working as a young man, it wasn’t in sales. Tell us a little bit about your background and some of the obstacles you had to overcome early on. Well, I was very young when I quit college after 90 days and disappointed my father. Then I was fortunate to go into construction with my uncle, and I did that for a year of back-breaking physical labor, which gave me an appreciation when I found the field of sales.

I went into real estate at 19, which was kind of unheard of back then, and found my niche. I spent eight wonderful years setting records in home sales. Then I wrote my first book, which became a bestseller, and that’s kind of how I got into the seminar business. Of course, that’s what I do today, fly around and teach people this wonderful art of closing more sales. Absolutely, and I’ve been to your seminars, and I must say they are quite impressive indeed. Tom, you became a millionaire and a sales legend at a very young age. Tell us, who were some of your biggest inspirations while climbing the ladder of success?

Well, Rob, I had three main mentors. They have passed away, but they back when I was a young man totally changed my life. One was Earl Nightingale, another one was Og Mandino, and then of course the late great Jay Douglas Edwards. And I took these three people’s training and made it a part of my life, and they were the people that I think got me started from somewhat of a failure when I was young to the person I’ve become. Interesting. Let’s move into our interview here, the nitty gritty of selling. As you know, martial arts schools must constantly sell new memberships in order to stay in business. So let’s begin here with the basics. When selling, why should instructors focus on benefits?

[04:19] Well, I think the main reason is that the product that you offer, people don’t really say yes to the membership. They say yes to the physical benefits, the emotional benefits that they’re going to get once they come in and take advantage of the training. and become a member. So the benefits of the key, and it’s not what it is, it’s what it will do for them. And that’s why I think a good person in membership sales asks a lot of questions, knows how to establish rapport with people quickly, and again, has a really nice personality with people. Because your first goal when you meet someone is to help them like you and trust you. And I find if that happens, the sale is a natural consummation of that process. I would agree with that. And in a lot of martial arts schools, it’s the program director that does the selling, and oftentimes they have fantastic people skills, because if people like you, then of course they’ll buy from you.

Now I understand there are many words that should not be used in a sales presentation. Tom, what are some of those words, and why should instructors avoid using them?

Well, we’re in the word business if you think about it, because no one really buys anything logically, even a membership. They will own the membership emotionally, then defend what they did logically. So building the emotions with a person is part of the process, and that happens with what you say to people. That’s why, for example, they shouldn’t say the price of the membership. It should be the total investment to join. It shouldn’t be if they do finance it. The down payment, it’s the initial investment. It shouldn’t be the monthly payment to be a member. It should be the monthly investment for your membership. And you should never say buy a membership. It’s when you own the membership because people love to own things. They’re just somewhat afraid to buy them. Then also like there’s two other words.

Don’t say sell or sold. Boy, we’ve sold so many memberships. See the words, Sellers sold have a connotation that we somehow pushed them into it. We coerced them into it. So the words they should say are get them involved. We’ve gotten so many local people involved in our membership program and the benefits they’re deriving are just wonderful. And all the comments we hear are so outstanding. That’s the way that they should talk to people. And when they’re filling out the membership, never call it a contract. because the contract is a word that feels like they’re being bound. So we use the terms paperwork or agreement. So John, let’s draft up our feelings in the paperwork and see if becoming a member makes good sense to you. I understand that. Now Tom, you are the master of the tie-down.

What is a tie-down and would you please give us some examples?

Well, first of all, the tie-down is one of the approximately 40… different question techniques I teach. And a tie-down is defined as a question at the end of a sentence that demands a yes. And, you see, the membership we might call the major decision when they decide to join. Well, the key to getting the major decision is to get lots of minor agreements. And that’s what the tie-down is used for. It’s something like this. You’ll feel a lot better when you take advantage of a membership, don’t you agree?

Or you’ll enjoy the physical benefits we’ve talked about, won’t you?

And joining just makes sense, doesn’t it? So it’s really taking isn’t it or doesn’t, wasn’t it, couldn’t it, wouldn’t it, shouldn’t it?

[08:02] And putting that little tie down on the end of a sentence to get a minor yes. Now you don’t want to overuse it, but you know, if you said to a person, you know, Jim, keeping physically fit can be it. challenge today, can’t it?

Well, of course he’s going to agree with you and then you can move into the benefits of a membership for that purpose. Do you find that amateurs trying to use a tie down, make it look like they’re trying to use a tie down?

Yeah, they do. They come across with a voice change. They also, I feel, haven’t rehearsed it towards natural. But I know that after you meet someone, if you said, hey, we’re all looking for ways to feel better, and to be in better shape, aren’t we?

Well, see, they have to agree with you on that, but you only use one or two. Too many people get excited about the little tie down and they overuse it and then it turns into a negative. I see. I understand. Now, one of the many valuable skills I’ve learned from you is the porcupine technique. In fact, I used it for years when I was selling martial arts memberships myself. In your own words, would you… Please elaborate on this very special technique or any other techniques like this for our audience today. Alrighty, well first of all, the porcupine is a funny name and I named this technique that because when I was young and just starting into sales, I was taught the technique of answering a question with a question. But I’d forget to do it. So I said, well what would I do to remember this?

So I created a visual. Where I visualize when a person asks me the right type of buying question, I would answer it with a question, because I’d pretend they threw a porcupine in my lap. And of course, no one would want to hold that, so I would throw it back. So if the person might say to you, well, how often would you suggest I come in for the program?

Well, you wouldn’t say, oh, twice a week, three times a week, whatever you say, that depends. It depends on your goals. We’re rather flexible. Did you have some times that you feel might work with your schedule?

Now, I’ve answered with a question. When they then give me the answer, it’s almost like they’re committing to the membership. Or they might say to you, how frequent are the classes?

And you say, well, we’re really flexible. Did you have certain days you’d like us to look at?

So again, it’s answering a question with a question. and in getting them to respond, they’re in essence saying yes to the membership. I would agree with that, absolutely. Let’s move on to prospecting. In your view, how much time and effort should instructors invest in generating leads for new students?

Please talk to us, Tom, about prospecting. Well, it’s the most important thing that a person in sales of membership does, and that is they try in the local community where they live to become known as an expert, almost an advisor in physical fitness and martial arts. And the way they do this is first of all, if I owned a martial arts studio or store, I would definitely want to join the Chamber of Commerce. I would want to go to some of the local business meetings. I would want to become known as the martial art expert. And everywhere I would go, I would look to network. You see, every business is looking for their own way of getting prospects in business. So if I went to a meeting with five other people that are in some type of business, I’d want to exchange cards with them.

I’d want to let them know what I did. I’d also like to let them know that if this guy, for example, is in an automobile dealership, that I will keep his card. And if I see anybody that might be interested in a new vehicle, more than happy to refer him to them. And so that would be my way of prospecting, and I think in doing so, that would generate lots of business. But the key is everywhere you go to meet people, exchange business cards, let them know what you do, then when you meet somebody, send them a thank you note. You know, dear Jim, it was so nice meeting you, and thanks for taking my card. As I mentioned, I’m a martial arts specialist in the area. We have a wonderful facility. I’d love to invite you in to preview what we do because you or someone you know might want to take advantage of our excellent program.

[12:27] Do you find that most sales people do not spend enough time prospecting and isn’t it a numbers game?

Oh, it really is. And that’s the saddest part about the business is they don’t look at everyone they look at as a potential future client. And you really have to have this antenna up. I used to call it the three foot rule. And that is whenever I get within three foot of anybody, I’m going to do my best to say hi to them, let them know what I do at the local business person in the martial arts field, and do my best to excite them to know more about what I do. Then of course I’ll get their card, send them a thank you note for discussing it with me, and that’s how you build momentum. And it definitely is nothing in the beginning but a matter of numbers. And once you get your membership up, once you get your renewals up, once you have your business built, then of course it’s keeping in touch and doing your best to keep people coming in and not letting their membership lap.

Without a doubt. Now you’ve become famous for your concept known as low profile selling. In fact, this week I’ve been listening to your low profile selling program in my car. I must say it is unbelievable. Please explain how instructors can apply low profile selling when presenting memberships to a prospective Well, I feel this approach is more applicable to your type of people. The traditional salesperson comes across often like a salesperson and turns off a lot of people. The low profile approach is more of an interested introvert approach where you’re more sensitive, you ask more questions, you don’t come across as a real talker. And in doing so, you don’t put people’s defenses up. Some of the best people I’ve ever taught in the membership field in physical fitness and different areas like that, they’re really wonderful, soft, nice, gentle people.

But they master the art of questioning and they learn the low profile approach of closing the transaction and thus getting a membership today. So if I’m understanding you correctly, Exactly. When you’re selling low profile style, you’re asking a lot of questions, you’re kind of being low key, you’re not being pushy or doing a hard sale. You’re kind of doing the opposite. Exactly. And being the opposite of what the person expects gets them to relax, lower their defense barriers, and makes them want to listen to you. I know back many years ago when I first joined a health club, the man that got me involved was probably one of the nicest, warmest men I’ve ever met. He was just a fine person. In fact, if you met him, you’d never realize he was the top producer in one of the largest health clubs in the United States.

But he had the skill of qualifying after what my needs were, asking me lots of questions. He was an excellent listener, and you just liked the guy. See, there’s no big secret out here. I think the reason I did so well in sales for the eight years that I did it full time before I went into authoring books and doing seminars was that my clients really liked me because I liked them. I was polite. I followed up. I kept my commitment. That’s another thing that many people in sales don’t do. They’ll say anything in trying to market a membership. But then a lot of times forget to take care of the details. the person they would do. So true. So if you say you’re gonna do something you gotta keep the commitment. You have to do what you promise you’re going to do.

[16:06] But just so our audience isn’t misunderstanding this, on your tape you say low-profile selling you’re acting like a lamb but you’re selling like a lion. You’re not being a lay down here. No, no, no. You’re just coming across different than they expect. You’re asking them lots of questions your low-keyed but you definitely will close like a lion being you will get the fail because you are lowering their defense barriers you’re asking the right question you move them into sit down and look at the way the membership of handled and then of course that going over the financial arrangements of it and then asking a minor question maybe what date do you think it worked best in your schedule we’re flexible after our classes and get them starting to commit and then of course I think you know just asking the test closing question bob how you feel about a membership right now it’s so simple well it’s something I you know I think I probably will do so let’s go ahead kitchen it started right away by the way did you know initial and then go right on the paperwork and invite them to become a member today.

See, many people give all the information, Rob. They tell everything about the club, the membership, the blah, but they never ask the test closing questions to get them to say yes to join. Do you find that some salespeople talk themselves out of the sale?

Oh, definitely. They are so interested in continuing to sell they never stop. and ask the person to go ahead and get started. I see. So it’s almost like when you’ve given the information they need, you ask a test question, Bob, how you feeling about this?

What do you think? Should we welcome you to our facility and get you to be in a membership today?

They won’t do that, see, but you’ve got to ask that test closing question. Help us understand the concept of consultative selling and how anyone selling martial arts memberships can use this educational type approach to their advantage. What is consultative selling?

Well, I think there’s three things that you do if you’re good at marketing martial arts memberships. One, you are an educator where you are teaching the benefits, the teaching them why this is important for them to do this. Then you’re a motivator. You educate and motivate. You motivate them to take action, to become a member. But then you also motivate them to see the benefits of not only continuing, but to really get excited about what they’re doing. And then of course, you are also having fun with people. See, I think that the greatest presentation, educational, motivational, but it’s also fun. You have fun with people. Now your book, The Official Guide to Success, is one of my favorite books of all time. I’ve read it and I’ve reread it for years, and I highly recommend that for every instructor in our industry.

They should add it to their library immediately. In your own words, Tom, please give us an overview of this powerful book and what it will do for anyone who reads it. Well, the reason it’s one of my favorite books is I know that the average human being today is so busy that they don’t have time to sit down and read self-improvement books as much as they like or as much as they should. So when I wrote this book, I researched 45 of the best books ever written on the subject of success. And these books, I took the nuggets, the golden points out of these books and put them into this one book. It’s a small book. It’s not large, but it does have all the concepts. So it’s almost like if they read The Official Guide to Success, they’re reading the concepts of some of the greatest minds in the field ever.

And so that’s why I’ve always loved that book. And I get letters from all over the world. People say, hey, that’s The Official Guide to Success. I’ve applied those 21 concepts and it’s really changed my life. When did you publish that book?

[20:05] Gosh, I’m going to say, Rob, that was about 1985. Really?

I’ve of course revised it. And whenever I come up with a new concept, when we revise it every two or three years, we put it in. So it’s not exactly the same as it was when I first wrote it. Yeah. And I noticed that Norman Vincent Peale did your forward. He did. Well, Dr. Peel was one of my, I guess, mentors as well. He had a wonderful book. I think you can read his material year after year. And I just liked him a lot, too. I went to many seminars with him. And when I went to him, I said, I’m writing this book. He said, send me the manuscript. And he read it and said, hey, I want to write the foreword. So I’m very, very happy that he wrote the introduction for me. Well that’s quite an endorsement indeed.

Now many karate schools, the owner does the teaching and the staff does the selling. It’s very common. For all the staff members listening to this interview, please touch upon the importance of developing persistent follow-up skills. Why is following up so key to the sales process?

Well I think that the great people in sales or follow-up specialists were the average don’t. I mean, I remember back in my days as a manager of a top real estate office, I was amazed how I as a manager would get a good lead for a potential home buyer. And I’d give it to one of my sales people because I was too busy managing and let him have it. And I was amazed how some of these people would make one call. They couldn’t get the person and that was the tenacity and persistence is so important if you’re going to be great in selling. The martial arts school, definitely has to consider themselves in sales from the owner all the way down to the receptionist that we have to have this attitude of our goal is we’ve got a wonderful product.

We change people’s lives. They’ll love what we’re going to teach them to do, but all of us have to have have this attitude that we must get people involved in the opportunity. And so that’s why when you get a lead, you just follow up, follow up. See, many people will put off coming into this school and they’ll put it off. But if you call it a couple times and create this rapport with them and say, Jim, I know I called you last week, but you’re on my mind, you’re on my calendar, and I really love you to come by and visit with us. I think you’ll enjoy. We’ve got something. special because you have been contacted by me and we’re going to do something real special for you. So I was hoping you could do that and my managers asked me to keep in touch with you until you come by and visit with us.

So was today convenient or how about tomorrow? So following up, I guess there’s really no rule on how many times you should follow up essentially. I guess you just keep following up until you get a yes or no answer. Is that correct?

Well, I think you follow up until like come in and see the school. I think you have to be persistent, not pushy. There’s a fine line there. I also think the people in sales need to let them know that the management has asked us to keep in touch with you so that the salesperson isn’t calling just because they want to make a sale. The manager said that we are to keep in touch with the people who we’ve discussed the opportunity with, and so that’s why I’m giving you a call again this week to see what they’d be best for you to come visit with us. And of course I also think that mailing the little thank you notes when you first talk to a person and let them know you’re excited to show the facility to them, excited to let them know the benefits of learning martial arts, I think this whole attitude has to be transmitted to the whole organization.

You know I got it on that note I got a handwritten thank you note this week. And I was so happy to see that because it seems like everything these days is electronic with emails, you know, and then you get a handwritten note out of the blue and it’s like refreshing. Well, I know. And that’s why when I back in my early years before they had electronic communication, I did thank you notes. But I tell people today in my seminars that a thank you note written and with a stamp on an envelope has more power today than it did back then because We’ve gotten into this unpersonal electronic transaction, faxes, email. And so I just think that if a person will hand-write some thank-you notes, get into the habit of it, the benefits long-term at the end of the year, after the number of memberships will be created, it will be unbelievable.

[24:47] Now, you mentioned your seminars just out of curiosity. How many seminars a year do you do these days?

I do about 70. speaking engagements a year, Rob. And I do about 40 in the United States. Then we hit Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Malaysia, and that’s kind of the countries and cities that we go. But I do about 70 engagements, and I love teaching. It’s been my, this is my 32nd year doing it, and hopefully I can continue to do it for many more years. Well, as I said, I’ve been to your seminars, and a lot of my colleagues and friends have, and I highly recommend them for anyone thinking about going, they’re truly valuable. Well, thank you. Tom, what is positive self-talk and how have you used this approach over the years to create countless sales champions?

Well, it’s very important people realize that there are some old basic truths and one was given to me when I was very young and it was given to me by a very great man and he said, Tom, you are and will become what you think about most of the time. And of course I thought to myself, I was 20 at the time, I said, I’m going to turn into a woman. That’s not what he meant. But what he meant was that what I’ve learned is what you think about has a tremendous emotional positive or negative effect on you. And the thoughts are created by what we see in here. So if you were to say negative things, you’ll have negative emotions into your mind and the feelings will not be positive. A lot of the way People feel as determined by what they think about, but that also starts with what they talk about.

So I’ve tried to convince people that they’ve got to say the right things to themselves, like little things like, in the morning. if a person would say three times, today I’m going to meet the right people at the right time for the betterment of all, and it’s going to be the best day I’ve ever had. Now you’d be amazed by saying that type of positive self-talk. How you start feeling better, you get psyched up, you get pumped up, and that’s something that people in sales and management need to do. You got to psyc up every day. See, a great athlete doesn’t run out on the playing field, kind of with a blasé, how do I feel attitude?

They pump themselves up, they have rituals, they may pound on each other’s pads in football or smack their locker in baseball. All this is to get the adrenaline pumping before you meet the clients. [inaudible] to the martial arts store or our facility, when you go in there, you got to leave any negative personal challenges. You got to leave them outside because when a person comes to the karate school, they don’t want to hear about your challenges because most of them don’t care. And so you got to say to yourself, for the next eight hours, I got a job to do and that’s impressed everybody that meets me with how wonderful a membership is, how thrilled they’re going to be in the future. and how everybody seems to be getting into this type of activity today. That’s right.

[28:12] Now renewing students from a short-term beginner program to a long-term black belt program is a process that occurs in pretty much every martial arts school out there. How can instructors use pre-framing to make their renewal process smoother and more successful?

Well, I think it’s very important, first of all, that every instructor take a real personal concern for every student. And that means, of course, you’ve got to remember their name. That’s very, very important. As soon as they walk in, you say their name. I try to get people in this type of business to do a memorization technique of repeating a person’s name four times as soon as they meet them. And that’s important. See, if a person comes in two weeks and they… they were the… you know, you were the one that got them the membership, but you don’t remember them. This is just… I think you also need to create a friendship to where, as their martial art instructor, you almost become a liaison, a friendship person to help them, not only in the martial arts field, but in other ways, in business, asking them a lot of questions, learning about their business, showing concern for them.

I mean, I really believe that if they like and trust you and they feel good with what you’re teaching them, that they’ll look forward to coming to the school because of the feelings that you give them. See, the average person today is lacking recognition, lacking someone making them feel good. And I think this is one of the things that you do when people come into your school. You’re making them feel like they’re part of the family. Exactly. That’s the feeling people want today. And they don’t get it on their job. Some of them don’t get much of it at home. I would agree with that. And while we’re on the subject of renewals are often pretty expensive. I mean, generally they cost $3,000, $4,000, $5,000 each. Because of the price, many instructors get a bit uncomfortable when it comes time to ask for the check.

What advice can you give us that will help instructors ask for larger sums of money with complete confidence?

Well, first of all, many people that have a challenge with the larger So, the first thing you have to do is you have to take out your ticket items. The reason is they can’t afford them themselves. And they have not sold themselves on the value that the person will get. So the first process is you have to really believe. That’s the key. You got to believe this is good for them, that when they give you that $3,000 or $4,000 and they make a four-year commitment to your school, that it’s the right thing for them, and they’ll thank you in the future. You got to sell yourself that. then you just have to make yourself get over this uneasiness about asking for it. You also, I feel, have to, of course, be an avid person using the facility yourself so they can see you’re actually not just a salesperson or a representative, but you totally eat, sleep, and drink what you’re marketing to them.

And I think in your seminars, you teach people not to flinch when they go for that close. Yeah, you’ve got to work on it to where it’s natural and it’s not something you’re not afraid of. You know, Jill, I thought what we might do is go over the financing and how we handle our memberships and if it makes sense, I’d sure like to welcome you to our school as a member. So can I sit down with you and go over that real quick?

And then you just sit them down and explain how it works, letting them know how they’re going to be thankful when they are a member, how much benefit they’re going to get physically, emotionally. And what you do for students, I also think that people have to talk about other people who were hesitant, but then joined and are so happy they did. Because see, when you talk about another person, you kind of remind me of Bill Simpson. Bill came to us about a year and a half ago. And he was really reluctant to kind of join. He felt the membership was a little bit too much for him. And of course, I visited with him and helped him understand the benefits long-term. He’s one of our happiest members and my goodness, he’s doing so well and I know if he were sitting right across the table he’d say to you, do not postpone this, take advantage of a membership today.

[32:23] Social proof is very powerful in the martial arts world of selling, you know, because there’s so many success stories out there and people have had their lives changed by the martial arts and I definitely encourage instructors to use testimonials in their selling. process. I get the impression that when you sell Tom you take your time you don’t put like a time limit on it you more or less just kind of go with the flow. Well true now we do have parameters I think it’s important to you to ask people about how much time they have. In other words when a person might come in and just look at the facility you know thanks for coming in I’m one of the representatives here and love to answer questions and would you like to kind of browse around and take a look at our facility.

And then of course they say, well yeah, I’m just kind of interested. Well, about how much time do you have?

Because I’d love to tell you what we do for people. It’s exciting. Well, I just, you know, I got a little time. So now I know I can slow down my presentation, take my time. And don’t be afraid to when you’re about a third into it say, how we doing on time?

You okay? Because I want to make sure that I don’t go too much into presentation and don’t make it closing attempt because suddenly you have an appointment I wasn’t aware of and you all of a sudden have to say look I forgot I gotta get out of here I gotta meet someone too. I should have known that. And that way I know how to structure my presentation. But I don’t think you hurry with people you take the time. I think many sales people I think rush a little bit too much because they want to get into the close before they’ve done enough for poor building and qualification finding out the person’s goals and dreams. – Definitely. Tom, let’s talk a little bit about staff training. As you know, a good fighter wouldn’t step into the ring for a title match without training really hard beforehand.

Along these lines, I know you always recommend that salespeople train really hard too. So, what advice would you give instructors when it comes to practicing, drilling, and rehearsing for sales?

Well, I’ll say this, that many people that are what I would call mediocre Maybe even good. They kind of wing what they’re going to say. They just kind of let it go, whatever they feel like saying. Where really a pro is always honing their presentation. They’re mastering their questioning skills. They’re doing their best. And I know when I was given an award in the state of California for being the top real estate agent in the entire state, I was 22 years of age and one of the people asked me, what do you think the reason is you’re so good at closing home sales?

I said, well, because I’ve rehearsed exactly what I’m going to say. I have a presentation on showing a home that’s pretty much the same. I asked the certain kind of questions in the vehicle on the way to the home, and I’ve mastered my presentation. And that’s what many people don’t want to do. But I will say this. If I were to come into one of your top facilities and meet the number one person, and then I came back, maybe I put on a whole different look and they didn’t know it was me and I came back the next month and the same person gave me the presentation, I will guarantee you 85 to 90% of what they said would be the same, especially when it works. I would agree with that. And you mentioned a couple of times that you were the top real estate agent in California.

Can you just elaborate a little bit on that?

I know that you had sold a certain number of homes in a certain period of time, can you talk to us about that?

Well right, I set a goal my third year which was to market a home every day of the year which would mean 365 closed sales which I didn’t do one every day but I might do three on a Saturday and then two on the middle of the week and another one on a Sunday and I ended up at the end of the year with this focus, this goal of closing 365 homes. sales, which had never been done and has never been done. And so that’s kind of why they referred to me as the top real estate agent ever in real estate. And what was exciting, I found everything I did to close home sales could be transferred into other businesses. And that’s when I wrote my first book, of course, How to Master the Art of Selling.

[36:40] It’s a generic book that I think, I don’t care what the product of a person will apply to seven fundamentals of selling and apply within that book. they have to do extremely well at closing sales. And that’s one of the reasons I wanted to do this interview with you because I know that your material is universal, isn’t it?

Oh, I think it’s universal because anyone who has to earn an income getting people to write a check for a product and the benefits of it, the strategies will work beautifully. If a person will learn the strategies and apply them. On to presentations. When it comes to selling, some instructors as we’ve already talked about, just wing their presentations, or they delegate selling to inadequately trained staff members. What is a planned presentation?

And at an absolute minimum, how many planned presentations should one have?

Well, I think that a planned presentation means you’ve pre-planned what you’re going to say and do. You have the steps that you’re going to go through. You’ve written down your questions. See, one thing nice about selling a membership is carrying a clipboard with a piece of paper on it, acting like a counselor, is nothing wrong with that. So to have the key questions and the concepts written down, I used to, in fact, if I were marketing memberships, I would on the top of the page have written member analysis for better service form. so that I can literally let them know that over the years we found it’s beneficial to find out certain things from people who are looking at our facility. And so if you won’t mind, I’d love to ask you a couple questions. Have you ever had a membership in a martial arts school before?

I’d like to know if they moved here from another city, if they were in another school before. So that knowing that, I’ll know they have some background. I try to teach people that if you find out what they have now or their past experience it tells you a lot about them So I think having some type of membership qualification and questioning survey is something that people could build into their presentation But I think that the presentation needs to be practiced. It needs to be honed It needs to be rehearsed and that’s what most people don’t do and I will say this if I own the school I would work on that presentation, I would have it in writing, I would take a brand new person, and I would get them to learn it. Because see, the brand new person doesn’t close sales because they don’t know what to say, and they learn what to say by losing sales for a year.

That they could have closed if they knew exactly what to say and do, not only on the tour of the facility, but in questioning to get the hot buttons and the needs of the person they’re showing the school to. – So I’m assuming it would be the owner’s responsibility to train the staff and to actually make time for mandatory staff training. Well, I think that every week there should be some type of training. Now, most businesses have a weekly meeting. And I think a meeting can be broken into new business announcements, but there should be a 12 to 15 minute part of the program that’s involved in training. to where they’re taught concepts, questioning skills. If a person’s the top producer in the whole school, that person, they should say, hey, why don’t we have some fun and let’s do some role play.

[40:13] Jim, you’re new, and Bill here has been with us now for two years, and he’s our top producer. So I’d love to have him right now take you through a quick tour and listen to what he says and what he does. And I know the answer to this, Tom, but on a scale of 1 to 10, where would that rank?

I would say that’s a 9. I would say so too. Maybe in a 10. Now some of the NAPMA member schools actually use an enrollment binder when they’re making their presentations. An enrollment binder is nothing more than like a three ring binder that has a bunch of material in it about the school. Do you recommend that approach?

Have you seen that before? I definitely do. I think I call it a visual aid presentation where you can sit a person down and say, you know, we’re really proud of our school and what we’ve done for our members. And we prepared this little book that quickly shows you like who we are and what we’ve done for others. And our school was founded in such and such a date. And our original founder here is a picture of Jim Smith. He dedicated his life to this business. And that’s why so many of our instructors are as good as they are because he personally trained them. This is our staff. And they’re full-time committed people to one thing, to take someone interested in martial arts and make them an expert, if at all possible, as soon as possible.

And then, of course, I’ve always used a flip chart presentation myself. And it should teach people three things. A new person thinking of a membership should know who you are, which is the history and background of the school, what you’ve done, meaning how many students you’ve helped and how many people nationwide or in the state you’re in have benefited. And then of course the main thing, if possible in pictures, what we can do for you. And boy is it great to have a testimonial from someone who took advantage of the school, loves the school, maybe someone even went out and was in a competition and won. And here’s a picture of them. And that’s the type of thing that emotionally builds excitement to say yes to the membership. Yeah, that’s real good stuff. My next question, perhaps the most important question.

You’ve trained thousands of sales professionals and helped countless people earn millions of dollars by improving their closing skills. Tell us, what’s the first step in becoming a master at consummating the sale?

Well, the first thing I will say is the presentation is nothing but preparation for the close. And if you have a great presentation, which means your tour, the way you handle people, your questioning skills, all of that by having them like and trust you and of course get them excited about the long-term benefits of what a membership will do for them. If you do all that right, the closing of the sale is kind of a natural thing. Of course you have to get people to at least look at what you do as far as how financing is arranged and how people become members. That’s why it’s important to say things like, you know, we have different types of programs for people. What I’d love to do is maybe sit down with you and visit as far as what your main goals might be.

You know, this might not be for you. Then again, it might. So come on in here. You got to get them to a table or the desk, and you’ve got to again ask them questions and then, you know, go into the actual final closing of the sale, which is, you know, very simple. So Jim, how are you feeling about all this so far?

Do you think it might be a good idea to let me welcome you to our school as a new member?

Well, I’m not sure. Why don’t we just draft up our feelings and see how it looks?

Now, I’d love to mail you some information too. So can I have your address?

And you move right into getting the address, move on to the paperwork. And many people don’t say yes because no one asked them to join. You have to ask for the membership and not be afraid of that. Now that takes some practice, but when you get good at it, man, and you’re a top producer and your income is doubled and tripled, you’ll get used to asking for the order. And just to get our listeners thinking here, Tom, what are some basic closes that every instructor should know?

[44:26] Well, I think the basic close, of course, I’ve talked about as a test closing question, Jim, how do you feel about becoming a member based on what you’ve seen?

See, that’s a test closing. I didn’t say, do you want to join?

How do you feel about it? That’s an important little question. I think the similar situation close is one they definitely need to use, which again, we’ve already discussed it, but it’s a true story about another member who was hesitant about joining, joined. Today they’re so happy they did. That’s a very powerful close. I also think that I want to think it over close. Almost every person that they’re going to meet in one way or another will say, I want to think it over. I’m going to get back to you. I’ll go home. And so I think they need to try their best to get them to go from that. I want to think it over into a concrete final area of concern. And when they overcome that, they close the transaction. oftentimes the real reason they don’t join is money.

The key is to help them rationalize the money. One of the ways we do that is a technique we call the reduction of the ridiculous, which is taking the membership amount over the years to get it down to a monthly amount, a weekly amount, a daily amount. Then, of course, the same with the monthly membership. That fee should be broken down to a daily amount so they can see that they’re investing less than they probably invest in the soft drinks they drink each month to have a better body and be physically fit and also of course learn the skills of defense and offense to protect themselves and their families. And you touched briefly upon the, you know, I want to think it over, Clos. I think every instructor on the planet has heard, I want to think it over.

I want to talk to my wife. I’ll get back to you later. Some instructors just say, okay, get back to me when you can. Mr. Jones, that’s not good. When they say they want to think it over, you just say, oh, that’s fine, Jim. And obviously, you wouldn’t take your time thinking the membership over unless you were seriously interested, would you?

And they’ll say, oh, no, I really am interested. Well, just to clarify my thinking, what phase of the membership is it you feel you need to think over?

Is it the schedule that we talked about after classes?

No. Is it the possible fact that you just don’t know if you should get started?

No, I probably should get started. Level with me. Could it be the money?

Well, you know, it’s a little more than I thought it would be. Then, of course, you then take the amount of too much and you reduce it to the ridiculous, get it to a daily amount, and help them rationalize. See, that’s really what you do when you market a membership. You help the person rationalize the benefits of ownership are more important than the money they’re going to been to join. So if you get down to the point where it is the money and typically it usually is, you want to try to find out how much too much is it?

Right. I mean, Jim, help me here. I know management would want me to know this about how much too much do you feel the membership might be. Well, I couldn’t go over. Now, a lot of times you can structure a program with a little less money. if they’re willing to take a longer membership. I mean, there’s lots of flexibility in membership closing. And that’s where I think a pro tries to be flexible to do what the future member wants to do. And I sold memberships for many years. And I got to tell you, the clothes that I used most frequently was the asumptive clothes. Can you talk a little bit about that?

[48:29] Well, I think the asumptive clothes is where, from the moment you meet someone, you have this attitude that you know they’re going to love being a member. You know they’re going to be so thrilled that they’ve come in. You know the benefits because there’s so many other people and you just have to assume that they will join. A lot of it’s a mental attitude. See, a lot of sales people shoot themselves in the foot because they start getting negative about people joining because they hit a bad cycle. They start thinking people just aren’t interested. Now if you start thinking that way, people aren’t. See, everything you say, everything you think is going to affect the way you come across, not only when you tour the facility, but when you sit down at the table and go into a minor closing, then a major closing sequence, all of those things affect that.

So with the Assumptive Close, you’re just going to assume that they’re going to join. That’s right. Obviously, you wouldn’t take your time coming to visit with us unless you saw the benefits of a membership, and you’re going to be more than thrilled that we’re going to do for you. That’s why I’m excited to welcome you to the facility and also to show you what we’re going to do. That’s right. Now you have so many training programs, Tom. Which one would you recommend for instructors who want to learn more about overcoming objections?

Well, I put together, you know, when my assistant said that we’re going to have people listening to this and what you guys do, and based on all the other membership organizations I’ve taught, I put together a package which I think is something that that the people will just love. It’s got four items in it. The first is the CD training system called Low Profile Selling. The second is an official Guided Success book, which is the book we discussed with 45 of the best-selling books ever written in it. And then I thought they really need to have my first book, How to Master the Art of Selling. Not only is it a best-seller, largest selling book ever written on selling, but it’s got so many techniques in it. And then I wanted to put in a DVD, a television program that they could watch, which is called the Highlights of the Perfect Sales Process, where I actually take them through the presentation, the handling of objections, the closing of the sale.

So I put this package together, and we’re real excited about it, and I know that if they called and ordered this whole system, it would be $244.85. That’s what people would pay for. But thanks to you and NAPMA, we’re offering it for $99, which, my goodness, if a person I know listening saw a suit that they love for $250 that was suddenly $99, they’d go and get the money and get that suit. So I think we’re offering a really great package for your members. I would agree, and I’ve listened to and watched and read the entire package. through the years and also recently and it’s just fantastic stuff. I would make it mandatory staff training as I in your school as I have here at NAPMA. It’s just fantastic material and the price just can’t be beat.

It’s, what is it, $99 and it’s normally like 245 bucks?

Yeah, that’s what we did for NAPMA because we want to have your members get this and I think they will love the fact if every school would go through this with a training program and we hire a new person, get them into listening to it, you’ll have a great increase in closing sales. Yeah, absolutely. I wanted to get into here just a little bit about the psychology of the look of the school. Many schools still look, feel, and sometimes even smell like gyms. And you walk into others and they’re real professional. I had a doctor’s office. Would you be so kind as to give us some tips on how to create the right atmosphere for selling?

[52:06] Are there some strategies here? Well, there are. Members are judgmental when they first look at a facility. And I think that cleanliness and tidiness and having everything look like you’re in order affects their emotions as to wanting to belong to something. I personally have been in the gyms. When I’m traveling, I usually find a gym and work out. And I’ve gone in and I’ve winced at the smell and looked at the fact that and towels are laying all around and the machines haven’t been cleaned and I kind of go, man, I would never join here. And then again, I’ll walk into another facility, the people are dress sharp, they’re groomed, they smell good, they look good and every piece of machinery is in great shape and it’s a whole different feeling. I mean, people want to join something that looks like it’s successful and a successful operation prides itself in looking sharp, clean, whereas if it doesn’t, people think, I don’t know if I want to join something that may not be here in another year.

And even when you’re making your presentation, I mean, I know that you have literally a science as to where people should sit, the color of the room. Can you touch upon that just a little bit?

Well, as I mentioned earlier, Rob, I’ve tried to make this and every little facet is critical in closing sales. You’re right. Having people sit directly across from you, especially if you have a husband and wife team that are a couple that come in. I mean, you have to have them directly across from you. You watch their nonverbal and verbal communication. You can keep your eye contact with both parties. That’s very, very important. important. I feel everything having no window behind them so that you can watch their eyes and all these little things make a difference. Again, if a person sits at a desk, it should be clean and organized. Because what happens is they look around and judge what they see, and maybe they don’t consciously do it, but subconsciously they’re making decisions. Do I want to be a part of this organization or not.

And that’s the whole key to the membership. And you know, a lot of instructors run into problems because both decision makers are not present when they go to sell the membership, especially in the case of kids. You know, mom will be there, but dad will be home, so they defer to the other. Yeah, we call this a one-lager, and boy, it’s really tough. That’s why it’s almost important that you find out who other than yourself would be involved in the decision if a membership makes sense to you. Because if a husband says right out in front, hey, I can’t do anything until I talk to my wife, then your whole goal is not to make a final closing, but to do such a great job that you really enhance him wanting to bring her back. Sure.

I mean, you know, this is the tough, one of the toughest transactions when you don’t have both decision makers. Oftentimes by asking that one question though, who other than yourself would be involved in the final decision?

A guy will say, oh, this is up to me. My wife could care less. So now you know you can go to the full closing sequence because he can write the check and say yes. Yeah, definitely. Now martial arts instructors are typically very busy people. Many of my colleagues teach classes and sell membership six days a week. Some get burned out from time to time. How do you recommend instructors create balance in their lives?

Well, I think the first key is you get real good at what you do so you can financially afford to really relax the day that you do take off. I think that you need to have a time, a commitment of time and effort. I know I only took three days off in my first three years because I wanted to build momentum. I wanted to build a referral base. I will say though that you know you got to psych yourself up every day. I mean all of us choose a job and I think a lot of people don’t psych up and don’t count their blessings and don’t get excited every day because they’re They’re just not pumped up about what they do. I think that’s all part of the process. A lot of people don’t count their blessings as far as living in this country, having free enterprise, working in a business where you can market memberships and generate an income based on your skills.

[56:28] No one determines your income except you. That’s why I think people that own schools and also the sales people that hopefully have goals to build their own business they have to get that attitude every day. There’s always things about a job we don’t like but you gotta quit dwelling on the negatives, think about the positive reasons you chose this industry and let that come across with everyone you meet. Well and finally everyone you can check out Mr. Hopkins website at www.tomhopkins.com. If you haven’t toured his site yet it’s an absolute must. The information and products Tom offers can help you out fortune to your bottom line. Again, check out tomhopkins.com. You’ll be very glad you did. Tom, on behalf of the martial arts industry, I want to thank you so much for sharing your unparalleled sales knowledge with us today.

You’ve been very gracious and I sincerely appreciate all the time you’ve spent with us here today. Well, Rob, thank you and thank you all that are in sales. Selling is the foundation of our country’s economic system, so keep doing a great job. Thanks, Tom. You’re the best. Thank you so much Rob. Bye bye.