Kathy Long: No More Mr. Nice Guy

Well, first let me say this particular instructor that I had wasn’t necessarily my first, but he was the first long term instructor I’ve had. He was also my boyfriend. And he was the kind of guy that was extremely talented. He was also in the Marine Corps. So I think he discovered a lot of techniques as far as brainwashing techniques. Starve the person, overload them with responsibilities, don’t give them enough sleep, and then the whole time tell them that they’re worthless. But when it came to a typical training day, especially when it came to the Muay Thai in the kickboxing, I would get up at 5 o’clock in the morning and go run for 10 miles. 10 miles?

10 miles. And that’s 5 o’clock in the morning sometimes was a little late. Sometimes I’d have to get up sooner, depending on what time I got off work the night before.

So 10 mile runs. 5 to 10 mile runs, depending on how long my fight was. If I had a 12 round title fight, then I had to run 10 miles. There’s no question about that. And sometimes I had to do it after I got off work waiting tables in the afternoon, which meant I’d get off work in the afternoon. I’d change my clothes and throw my work clothes into a little backpack. Throw the backpack on. I’d have to call my trainer. And I’d tell him, OK, I’m leaving now. And he’d started stopwatch. And I had to run 10 miles in exactly one hour. I had to get to the house and knock on the door and be there in exactly one hour. Well, how about other type stuff?

Say push ups. Well, it got to the point where I had to do 1,000 push ups a day. A day?

1,000 a day? Yeah, 1,000 a day. I was doing 10 sets of 100. And that was throughout the day. Sometimes I’d be in the middle of work and I’d just go into the bathroom or something and drop down and do 100 push ups as quickly as I could. Oh my goodness. But they had to be the kind of push ups where either your chin touched or you got as close to the ground as you could without your body touching. So not butt dips, but like real push ups. They had to be real push ups. And if he saw me doing any kind of push ups that didn’t count to him, I’d have to start the whole thing over again. I’d have to start my 1,000 over again. Now let’s say at 9 o’clock at night, I’m finishing up my last set.

[04:15] And maybe two or three of those push ups weren’t to his liking. I had to start the whole thing over again. Oh man. What about sparring?

Sparring was the kind of thing that I felt I was the worst at because I got beat up more than anybody else. All my sparring partners were men, all of them. Especially one guy in particular who became my main sparring partner, his name was John Iceman Adams. He was a 140 pound world champion. And he was the kind of guy that was just on top of you like white on rice. And he broke my nose. I’ve suffered more injuries from my sparring partners than anybody else. Because these were the guys that if they didn’t spar hard, my trainer would scream at them. If I didn’t spar hard, I’d get screamed at. Oftentimes, if it looked like they were trying to take it easy on me, we’d both get screamed at. It was just one of those situations where I had to go hard.

And if I didn’t go hard, it wasn’t worth it. He was the kind of guy, my trainer, was the kind of guy that if you got injured or hurt, that was a big differentiation for him. He’d look at you, and if you, let’s say you bang knees and you both fell on the ground and you’re rolling in pain and you can’t get up and you can’t put any weight on it, he’d look at us and say, well, are you injured or you hurt?

If you just hurt, get back in there. You could spring your ankle. There were times when I was sparring and I got kicked in the ribs and they got broken. And he looked at me and said, are you hurt or are you injured?

And at the time, it didn’t hurt as bad, but after the sparring session, I had to go to a drugstore and get a weird brace and I went to the doctor and my ribs were broken. But he didn’t care. He was the kind of guy that once you got your ear into training, and once you start training, you could never stop. It was 365 days a year if he could help it. When you were sparring, how many rounds did your trainer have you go?

Well, if I was fighting for, if I was preparing for a title fight, it was a minimum 12 rounds. 12 rounds. With several different sparring partners. He’d bring in heavy weights and just let me pound on them as hard as I could and he’d bring in people who were smaller and faster. He’d bring in people who were about 160 pounds, which is a middle weight, and just let him pound on me. And I had to work my defense as best I could. Like I said, most of my injuries happened in sparring. But this was the kind of guy that as soon as, you know, as soon as I was done running, I had to go teach morning class. As soon as I was done morning class, I had to go weight tables in the afternoon. As soon as I was done with that, then I had to come and teach afternoon classes all through the evening and through that time doing my pushups, also doing my bag work.

And before I went to bed, I had to jump rope for 45 minutes to an hour. It was just nonstop and the bag work and the mitt work. And the mitt work was the kind of thing where, if I wasn’t to the point where pure exhaustion, it wasn’t good enough. That is unbelievable. One of the more shocking things that you had mentioned to me once was that when your trainer was having you run these 10 mile runs, he would put this kind of like this Frankenstein device on you. I think you referred to it as the lung trainer to reduce the oxygen going into your lungs. Tell us a little bit about that. I think they’ve discontinued those people were getting were passing out and suffering a severe lack of oxygen. You think?

What is this thing? Well, this was a snorkel like device. Imagine you’ve gone scuba diving, you got a snorkel you put in your mouth. And there’s one tube that runs around the side of your head, right?

Well, with this lung trainer, it was two tubes, one on each side of your mouth, and it went around the back of your head and it stopped behind your head. So you slip it over your head, you put the snorkel device in your mouth and it’s like, it’s very much like training at high altitude because the oxygen that you take in is next to nothing. That is amazing. So I can see you now running up and down hills in California on a 95 degree day with a snorkel like device wrapped around your head as you’re heading towards the 10th mile. No wonder you were in such great shape. And all this time you were kind of being, to some degree, sleep deprived. You weren’t eating much, if I understand correctly, is that right?

[08:43] Well, I got so busy during the days that if I ate once that day, if I ate once that day, I was very lucky. And sometimes that once the day was at the end of training around 10 o’clock at night. And then of course,

I had to work as a bouncer, but that was another, a lifetime ago, it seemed. Yeah, and I wanna talk to you more about that in a minute. What is Hell Day?

Hell Day was something that discovered, he was brilliant at finding something. When something started to get easy, he’d find a way to make it harder. So Hell Day, we’d go to the track at the college, local college, and you would start at the 50 yard line and you’d sprint one time around the lap, which is a 440, 440 yards. You’d sprint that as absolutely as fast that you could sprint it. Then from there, you rest one minute exactly or 45 seconds depending, and you have to sprint it again. You do that about five times. Now here’s the catcher, the last one, the last lap had to be within 20 seconds or 10 seconds of the first lap, or you’d have to start the whole thing over. Now that was just the beginning of Hell Day. From there, you go to the bleachers and you’d sprint bleachers.

You’d sprint up, across, down, and across again. You just keep doing that for five, two to three minute rounds with a minute rest in between. When that started to get easy, then you had to put a weight vest on and do it with a weight vest. If that was too easy, then you’d get a sparring partner and put him on your back and you’d go up the bleachers with sparring partner on your back. And that was the second phase of it, the third phase. Once you’re done with the bleachers, then you go back down to the football field and you had to do wind sprints, starting at the five yard line, go to the 10, back to the five, go to the 20, back to the five, go to the 15, 20, 30, all the way up to the 100 yard line and back.

And that was wind sprints, the entire length of the football field. When you were done with wind sprints, then you had to squat down as low as you could so that you’d be on your toes and you had to squat hop from one end of the football field all the way to the other. That’s extreme. And the whole time, it sounds to me like it was like you were in the Marines. There was a lot of negative reinforcements, some humiliation and berating, this kind of thing. What was going through your head while you’re being pushed to those limits?

There were times when sheer hatred was going through my head. I hated what was going on. I hated the one who was yelling at me. I hated the situation I was in, but I did it in spite of him. What do you mean by that?

Well, because it’s a strange phenomenon, but I guess because of my good genetics and my body would do what I asked it to do. My body got to the point where I could actually do all the things that I was told I had to do. And I would do it as best I could or better than he expected because he believed I couldn’t. And simply because he believed I couldn’t, I would prove him wrong. Yeah, yeah. And you described what your training was like. How long did this kind of thing go on for?

[12:09] I mean, put it in perspective, are we talking four months, six months, a year, longer?

I think that went on for about six years. About six years. Let’s move on to a different subject. I recall once you were attending a Pernell-Whittaker training camp.

When you were suddenly attacked by some fool who didn’t know who you were, if I remember correctly, you nearly ripped this guy’s scrotum off and you put him in the hospital with a barrage of other injuries. Tell us in your own words exactly what the heck happened that morning. Pernell-Whittaker’s training camp. And so I got up really early one morning. I think it was around 5.30, six in the morning. That’s typical for me. And I went for a nice long run. So I went up a nice long run and I was about a mile away from my hotel and I stopped my run and I started walking back. I was cooling down. When a very large Hispanic guy was walking the opposite direction, walking the same direction as me and he looked at me and he goes, hey, do you mind if I walk with you?

And I looked at him and I looked him up and down and I saw that he just had gang banger written all over him. But then I thought, you know, he never judged a book by his cover, never. So I said, yeah, sure. So I’m walking along and you know, the typical questions, what are you doing here?

Where are you from? And you know, I gave him a little bit of information but enough to get him asking more questions, which unfortunately led to, hey, what hotel are you in?

Maybe we could hook up and we can go out and we can do something. And I said, you know what?

I’m done with this conversation. I turned around and I walked the opposite direction when he grabbed my arm and pulled me toward him, swung me around and pulled me toward him and you know, had all kinds of choice words at that point. I guess I didn’t like the fact that I just, I ended the conversation and walked away. And as he pulled me toward him, I didn’t think anything else other than what I needed to do. I grabbed him by the groin. I felt his left testicle crush in my hand. Wow, you actually crushed his testicle. His left testicle. Was it like just like a monkey paw type groin grab strike, boom, just. It was a palm, I reached up underneath, palm, grab and pull, he had very baggy pants on so I had to hit hard to make sure that I connected with anything.

I wasn’t sure how far down his pants would go. Okay. So I palm grabbed and pulled his groin as hard as I could in that respect. When he bent over, I hit him over the back of the head. With what?

My forearm. Forearm strike to the base of the skull. Forearm strike to the base of the skull and when he fell down, I stomped on his ribs about 10 times and broke four of them. Well, so then what?

Did you like just run off after that or did you call the police?

What’d you do? You know, I ran home. I’m home. I ran back to the hotel and I was going to let everybody know what happened and then I thought, wait a minute, they’re all asleep. I’m not gonna bug them with this. So I grabbed my cell phone. I went up to my room, grabbed my cell phone, ran back because I was gonna find the guy and call the police, get him to the hospital. I knew he needed to go to the hospital but I was gonna get him to the hospital, call the police and press charges. Was the guy unconscious when you left him?

He was out cold before he hit the ground. Okay, so you just knocked him out on his feet. Okay. So when I got back, he was gone. Somebody must’ve seen him on the side of the road and picked him up. So at that point, I ran back to the hotel, dug out a phone book, started calling all the hospitals. I described exactly what he was wearing. I described his injuries and I found him. I finally got ahold of an admitting nurse who admitted that, told me that he was there and I said, look, this is what happened. I’m calling the police and having them meet me there. I’ll be there shortly. So you went to the hospital to identify the body?

[16:10] He was alive. He just had severe internal bleeding and concussion. A nasty concussion and four broken ribs. Was he conscious while you were there?

No. Just still unconscious? Still unconscious. Oh my God. Wow. And when the police showed up, you know, I had time to calm down and think about what had happened and all I could think about was great, I’m gonna go to jail. You know, that’s excessive force under any circumstances. And you know, when I explained the situation, I explained why I was there, who I was with, everybody, I gave them names, numbers, all of that. And when it was all said and done, the police officer looked at me and said, I don’t wanna ever see you again. And I got up and left as quickly as I could. Wow. If you had to go back and do it all over again, I mean, obviously this guy put his hands on you with really bad intentions and you, it sounds to me like he just snapped and did what you were trained to do.

Is there anything that you would do differently? No. Okay, enough said. Let’s move on. Many people do not know this either about you. You kind of alluded to it a moment ago, but you used to be a bouncer in a very tough and dangerous bar. My first question about this is, you’re a very attractive and talented young lady. I mean, a far cry from what one would envision as the typical bouncer. First of all, why did you choose that line of work?

And why did you pick one of the roughest bars in town?

Well, I can’t say it was one of the roughest. I mean, it was, it was just one of the few in existence in that city that I lived in. So all walks of life came there, from gang bangers to college kids to rednecks to you name it, they were there. Okay. Now, why did I choose that?

You know, it kind of chose me that I was waiting tables at a very nice seafood restaurant, which had this great nightclub adjacent to it. The manager kept begging me to be his lead bouncer in his establishment. And I kept saying, no, I’m just a liability for you. I’m not a big guy. I can’t just pick some guy up and throw him out. I can’t do that. I’m gonna have to hurt him, which means you’re gonna get sued and I’m gonna get fired and it’s gonna be a mess. You don’t want me there. So he kept offering me more and more money because he knew what I did. He knew where I taught classes and he knew that I was a kid boxing person and he just thought that I would be perfect. So at the time you were a kung fu sanzu black belt and also kickboxing?

Yes. Okay. Yes. And he knew that. He knew that, I mean, he had come and watched a couple of classes. So he understood completely what I did. And he just thought that I would be the best thing there at his club because he felt that I would have a nice calming, nurturing, mothering effect on these people. And to some degree that was true, but for the most part, they had one chance. Once it was clear that they had to leave the bar, I would approach them, unless there’s already a fight ensued, that was different, but I would approach them with kindness. And if that didn’t work, they had one chance. If that didn’t work, then I’d have to hurt them and then they’d be drug out of the bar. How’d you hurt them?

Well, it was either hit them in the groin, hit them in the windpipe, stomp on their knee, hit them in the eyes, I’d go for a vital target. I’d go for a target where I knew that I didn’t have to necessarily worry too much about hitting him several more times. And this is where accuracy and commitment really come into play. Explain that. And that’s what I got a lot of practice in. Accuracy and commitment as in like maybe putting your finger in an eye. Absolutely. Or making sure I hit the testicles and not the penis or not the thigh or not missing. Because if I miss on my first strike, I better make sure I hit the second one. A lot of people listening to this right now have probably been teaching students how to strike someone in the eye.

[20:12] But maybe they themselves have never actually put their finger in somebody’s eyes in a self-defense situation. What’s it like?

It’s wet and sticky and gooey. Okay. And what is the typical reaction when you’ve stabbed your fingers into a person’s eye?

Screaming. Hands go to the area that’s hurt. Moving away from the antagonist, moving away from the strike. I’ve seen lots of different reactions depending. Like for example, one guy, I grabbed him from behind and my finger actually slipped into his eye socket. And I had him in a choke hold as well as my finger in his eye. And he kept squirming and screaming and screaming and trying to get away from me. And I kept telling this guy to calm down. And it didn’t occur to me at first that my finger was middle knuckle deep into his eye. So finally when I pulled my finger out of his eye, he calmed down a little bit, but he was screaming. He was screaming. Because it’s amazing. You get a hair in your eye or an eyelash or a piece of sand or something.

How irritating and painful it is. Absolutely. Imagine something being forced into there at an extreme force. Oh, believe me. The worst injury I ever had in martial arts was a big toe in the eye. Guy threw a low high, kick at me. Second kick came up with not a courtesy blade but a traditional blade. Pushed my guard down, the toe stabbed me right in the eye. I was spitting blood out through my mouth. Man, I’m telling you what, you get hit in the eye with a good shot, you’re gonna know it. Did some of these people freak out like when you, they’re bad, they’re tough, maybe they’re partially drunk, then all of a sudden they get hit by you and they turn around and they see a woman. What was that like?

Well, let’s clarify a little bit of what you just said there. They get hit by me and then they turn around and see it’s a woman. When they get hit by me, because I’m striking to a vital target, they’re not gonna turn around and see that that’s a woman hitting me until it’s way too late. Until it’s way too late, until they’re on the ground in severe pain. I mean, when a guy pulled out a knife and there was a, you know, it was going on in the bar, he looked, the guy with the knife took one look at me and thought, you know, I could see the look on his face. Oh, it’s just a woman, he didn’t care. And he went on to try to attack the guy that he was trying to get a hold of.

Well, that gave me the opportunity to grab his wrist and break his elbow and wrench his arm behind his back and drag him out the door. So I’m assuming since now we’re talking knives, you probably, I’m assuming anyway, felt that maybe your life was in danger at times in this bar. I mean, it sounds like it was for real. You know, unfortunately too many times because, you know, there were times when I’d look at a guy who’s 280 pounds and, you know, I know that if I hit a vital target, I stand a good chance of winning this altercation. There are other times when I just think, God, if he got a hold of me first, I’m, that’s it. I’m finished. Yeah. And that just got to the point where I thought, you know, this is, there comes a point in time where you kind of evolve and grow out of, out of your young, what you call your young, foolish days, you know, and guys all know what that’s about.

And, you know, it just came a point in time where I thought, you know what, this isn’t right anymore. I got to get out of this line of work. How long did you do it for?

About two and a half to three years. Two and a half to three years, several times a night, or several times a week?

I worked Thursday, Friday, Saturday night. Okay. And on top of that, I was training full time and teaching full time and working and waiting tables. Okay, so rewind the tape. Here you are, you are training at the level you described earlier, which is truly some of the most extreme training that I’ve ever heard of, actually, aside from maybe what some of these new MMA guys are doing, you know, to fight in the UFC or whatever. Then you’re working at a school, too, I understand. You’re waiting tables. You then go into the deep hours of the night, you’re a bouncer, and the whole time, you’re working from what, like five a.m. until what time?

[24:25] Three a.m. Five a.m. till three a.m. You’re hardly getting any sleep, and you’ve got a trainer who’s pushing you to the farthest extents imaginable, at the same time berating and humiliating you using marine-style negative reinforcement to try and take your skill set to the next level. How the hell did you survive that?

You know, Rob, it’s amazing what you can condition your body to get used to. And sadly, I think because I suffered a lot of abuse as a child from my parents, I perpetuated that cycle,

Sometimes it’s better the devil you know than the devil you don’t. And it took a while for me to realize what the hell I was doing, to get out of it. But at the time I was in it, and I kept trying to improve and trying to get better and trying to make life easier, but at the same time, I knew the buttons to push, and there’s a term for that in cycle babble talk, it’s called passive aggressive, and I was good at it. And I didn’t like who I’d become.

Very interdesting. Clearly you’ve been involved with quite a bit of what I would call real fighting, in and out of the ring, and some things that we’re definitely not gonna talk about here. So let me ask you this, when things suddenly get ugly, and a person has to go into survival mode, what are some of the do’s and don’ts that one should be aware of so they increase their chances of coming out on top and not coming out a statistic?

There’s a fine line between a guy who’s just screaming and yelling at you, and then he crosses that line and he hits you. It’s being able to recognize when that’s going to happen. And you can either A, prevent it, or B, allow it to happen. And if you can recognize when it’s gonna get to that point, because there are a lot of times when guys will just scream and yell, and scream and yell, and scream and yell, and that’s all that’s gonna happen. And then there are times when maybe the guy’s not screaming and yelling so much, but he’s angry, and he just explodes and starts striking. It’s being able to recognize that. It’s being able to, for me, over the years of being around people, especially in various stages of aggression,

There’s a school of thought. You can either A, try to neutralize it with something very similar to verbal judo, and try to neutralize the situation and just be done with it. Or when you know the fight’s imminent, you attack first. Okay, of course. And those times when you attack first, you’ve gotta decide how dangerous is the situation, how much in danger am I in, and you go from there, because it’s very important. If you’re gonna strike first, strike fast and hard and strike a vital target. First is with the mostest. Yep, yeah. That’s vital to me. That’s a given. You have to do that, especially if you’re someone my size. I’m 133 pounds. — Well, as you said, there is a lot of good people in the world, but there’s also some bad people in this world, and on that note, you’ve done a lot of body guarding, and you’ve done body guarding for some very high-profile people, and unfortunately, we can’t mention any of their names here today due to security reasons, but along those lines, what can you tell us about being a professional bodyguard?

[28:11] What’s the inside scoop? In a nutshell, the inside scoop, there are times when a person really needs a bodyguard. There was a woman who I was hired to take into a city where she lived. See the judge, extract her children out of school, out of a hostile environment in school, and get her away from her husband.

There were moments like that, I feel damn good about what I’m doing, damn good, because here’s a person who really needed help, who really needed somebody to protect her while she did these really, really hard things in her life. She had to face some serious challenges and go into, basically, go into enemy lines, cross enemy lines, be in enemy territory, where her husband knew everybody in that town and everybody was on his side. What kind of challenges did she face?

What was going on in that situation, if you’re at it?

This was a man who was extremely hostile and had weapons and liked to use them, and had friends who were like-minded, and all of his friends, and the family friends, she’d been there for a very long time, her family was there, and so was his family. So we’re talking all kinds of relatives who lived in this town, this is a small town to start with. All of his relatives in that town were on his side, and all of his friends, and everybody that they knew. So she literally couldn’t go anywhere without being seen by somebody who might know who she is. And I had to sneak her in, see a judge, get a court order to close the account to have temporary custody over the children, and get her out of there. Get the children and get out of there.

Were you successful? Yes. What’s the stickiest situation you found yourself in as a bodyguard?

Oh, the stickiest situation? Yep. I’m with several bodyguards, and we’ve got a client in Mexico, and our job is to basically babysit this guy. And he’s there for business, but he definitely likes to enjoy himself while he’s there. Well, one of the guards, one of the bodyguards, who were working several eight to 12 hour shifts, so that he’s got 24 hour protection. And one of them slipped up on his duties, fell asleep in his chair, and the client took a walk.

Took a walk and disappeared. And disappeared in Mexico, imagine Mexico City. And it took us a very long time to find this guy. It was not easy. And that was a horribly sticky situation. And not only that, the only world phone that we had that could dial anywhere in the world got broken. Oof. Yeah, it was a very sticky situation. So you guys were basically hired to protect this guy. He got out of the bodyguard’s sight for a short period of time, and did somebody snatch him?

According to him, he went to hook up with some girls that he had met. And we were there when he met them, but we just didn’t anticipate him being able to sneak out and go hook up with them. And they got him in a car and took off. Oof. And took him for all his money and left him without clothes and without money. Oof. God. Okay, that is an interesting situation. It was not a good situation. I’ll bet not. You’ve starred in several of your own movies. You’ve stunt doubled from Michelle Pfeiffer in Batman II, et cetera, et cetera. Is acting still one of your passions?

[32:14] To some degree, yes. It’s one of my passions because it’s a way for me to put out the message. – It’s a way for me to enrich and empower people’s lives.

If there were another way to do that, especially reaching the masses, I would do that. But acting seems to be the best way at this point. – Yeah, you definitely do reach the masses that way, for sure. What was the most rewarding part of playing the part of Catwoman in Batman Part II?

That was, I have to say, in the film industry, that was one of the absolute best experiences I’ve ever had, for a lot of reasons. When I got hired, I’d never been involved in the film industry. I didn’t know anything about it. And out of the blue, this kickboxer from Bakersfield gets hired, amazing. But I just happened to be at the right place at the right time. And that has happened to me a lot of times over the years. I just happened to be at the right place at the right time to experience an amazing experience. But working on that show, for me, was the beginning of the end.

It was the beginning of the end of that chapter in my life. What do you mean by that?

Well, I mean that I was facing a lot of abuse. And no matter how well I did in a competition, in a fight, a kickboxing match, the trainer would tell everybody else how wonderfully I did and tell me how horribly I did. And even if I’m winning a world title, it didn’t matter. The abuse, physically, emotionally, mentally, had reached its peak at that point. And then I get hired to work on Batman Returns. And this was an opportunity for me to do something, for me to see that I could do something without being told how and how to do it. And I did it all by myself. And my work was appreciated. And my work was not only appreciated, but it was told it was fantastic. And I was starting to see the light. I was starting to realize that, yes, I do have self-worth.

Yes, I can do this by myself. Yes, I can do the things I think I can do. Wow. Something that I always knew and held on to, even in the worst of the abuse. I always held on to that tiny little part of me that I knew I would be OK. But this was finally a way for me to see it for myself. No one was telling me how to choreograph the scenes I was doing. Yeah. It sounds like it really was indeed a major turning point in your life to break away from the past and start over fresh. And as they say, there has to be a death of the old self before there can be a birth of the new self. And it’s true. Words were never spoken, my friend. Yeah. Very, very, very good.

Interesting. Once you and I were talking martial arts stuff in my living room, and I just remember you demonstrating on me about 62 different ways to really mangulate a human being using primarily kung fu san-su techniques. And I said to myself, man, this lady is for real. Absolutely deadly. At the same time, and this is the real dichotomy here, you’re as nice as could be. You’re so nice to everybody you come in contact with, one of the calmest, most respectful, friendliest people I know. You’ve got a great sense of humor. Talk to us about flipping that switch and instantly going from sweet, humble, kind, and gentle to I’m going to rip your face off. How do you do it?

[36:10] I think how I differ might be just the same or just as different as everybody else who does it. There comes a point in time when it’s a matter of principle. And everybody who talks about having a slow fuse, there are those who say I’ve got a very slow fuse. But my fuse can be very short if I see that there’s an injustice being done. And in that respect, all emotion, as we all know it, shuts down completely. It just gets shoved in a box in a fraction of a second. And the wonderful, cold-blooded animal that is alive and well inside of me is right there. It’s like I switch places. In a fraction of a second, I have to. And if I feel that there’s an injustice being made or done, I just have no question of flipping that switch.

Wow. And I remember very clearly when that animal woke up inside of me. And it’s while I was doing my kung fu kung fu training. And I was, I guess, midway through before I even became a black belt, I was training with people who were fast and lean and hard. And we’re picking each other up and slamming each other on the ground, hitting each other hard. And I’m getting up off the ground. And it’s part of me that’s just exhilarated by it all. I’m like, OK, you threw me down harder. I’m going to throw you down harder. And I’m just going to, that animal just became alive. And it’s like that every single time I have to get into an altercation. That same feeling. Oh, yeah?

OK. Is that genetic or does that stem in part from your martial arts training?

It stems a lot from my martial arts training. I really do. My trainer was the kind of guy that, you know, when you block a punch, you don’t just block the punch to get out of the way. You block it to hurt it. You block it to break that arm. Unless you decide not to block it at all. Unless you decide to slip it and stick your fingers knuckle deep in somebody’s eye. But every time you hit them, you cause damage. Every single time you go through that target, not to it. And we’re talking years and years and years and years and hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of techniques being done every single day in training. And it becomes deeply ingrained in your muscle memory. Yeah. Wow. I also know that you’re highly skilled with firearms.

When I was in California recently for that Jackie Chan interview, you mentioned that you had to show your firearm to a punk and about 20 of his friends who were about to try something funny as you were pulling out of a parking lot. Tell us about how you handled that situation. And more importantly, give us your thoughts on owning a gun. It’s kind of a controversial subject. It is a very controversial subject. And I living in California, it’s not looked on very, very well. But first off, owning a gun is a huge responsibility. It really is because it’s a tool just like every other, or it’s a weapon, just like every other weapon you have in your house. You know, you don’t want to pull out a sword when it’s not necessary. You don’t want to pull out a knife when it’s not necessary.

You don’t want to pull out a huge club when it’s not necessary. So having said that, obviously, branching a weapon in the state of California is, is, is absolutely wrong and illegal. But this was a situation where I had gotten off work and I was working with my weapon. You know, that’s another aspect of body guarding. There are those who can have a, who obtain a concealed weapons permit and can carry it concealed. And there are those who cannot. It depends. I had gotten off of work and I’d gone to the grocery store and I was pulling out of the parking lot and I was about to turn onto the street. A swarm of kids anywhere from 16 to 22 surrounded my truck. Literally surrounded my truck. And the guy at the driver’s side of the window right here, I had my window cracked just a little bit.

[40:28] And he leaned in and he said, get out of the truck. And as he leaned in and said, get out of the truck, I looked at him and I said, I think you better go home. He looked up because somebody across the truck had said something to him. And while he looked up, I reached under the newspaper that I had sitting on my driver’s seat, pulled out my coat, excuse me, my, Springfield 1911 stuck it in his face. And he looked back at me and I said, I said, I think you better go home. He looked at the gun and he said, he said, beat. That was the one word he said and everybody just ran. Literally ran as fast as he could away from my truck. Wow.

You know, I’m very excited to announce to all the NAPMA members that starting next month, your new instructional series is going to debut on the monthly NAPMA innovations DVD. And that series is called No More Mr. Nice Guy. This is another NAPMA exclusive. Explain to the members, Kathy, what you intend to teach in these segments and how No More Mr. Nice Guy is gonna benefit them. Well, what I intend to teach is striking to vital targets when the situation calls for it. When the situation is at a point where you simply can’t walk your way out of a fight or run your way from a fight. When worst case scenario, you’ve just got to take care of business and get the hell out of there. So give us an idea of some of the actual techniques you’re gonna be teaching in this series.

As far as I know, this is not gonna be a nice little dainty, you know, here’s how you do this little sparring drill for kids. This is an adult only, you know, kind of like Crush, Kill, Destroy, real serious, practical proven self defense type series. What are you gonna teach in this thing?

Well, I’m gonna teach people how to crash the line. Let’s say you’ve got somebody with long reach and you’re concerned about getting inside. I’m gonna teach them to crash the line and, you know, let’s be honest. I’m gonna teach you everything that’s gonna get you tossed in jail. And get you in a lot of trouble physically because there is such a thing as such a force. No matter what state you’re living in. But when push comes to shove, you’re gonna end the fight, you’re gonna end it quickly and you’re gonna cause as much damage as possible and get the hell out of there. So what I think you’re saying is that, you know, we would never, you know, advise the NAPMA members to do anything that they shouldn’t do, especially if it’s illegal. But if push comes to shove and your life is on the line and it’s you or them, these are the kind of things that keep you from becoming a statistic.

Think about it. Even as a martial artist, even as me, Kathy Long, five foot five, 133 pounds, you know, there are times when I have felt threatened. I felt that my life could be in danger. When I’ve had it, you know, even when I’ve been in the bar and I see this guy who’s, this giant redneck who’s known nothing but a hard life. He’s worked in the oil fields. And he’s drunk. So when interesting things happen when you’re drunk, you either feel pain really quickly or you don’t feel pain for quite a while. You have a delayed reaction. And if I have some big giant guy like that, if he gets the first shot in, if he palms me in the face or punches me in the face as hard as he can, what could happen to me?

I could be dead. I could literally be dead on the ground. If he grabs ahold of me and decides to bear hug me, that’s it. I’m squished to death. There comes a point in time when you have to say enough is enough. And you’ve got to be able to take care of business immediately. Stick the fingers knuckle deep in that eye while you’re mouthing the guy and biting his fricking nose off. You know, and one thing that’s just been an observation is that some instructors have gotten away from teaching realistic self-defense training at their school. And I’m not gonna ever suggest that that’s right or wrong. That’s kind of an individual decision on, you know, how someone wants to run their school. But for those instructors that are looking for some real serious self-defense instruction from an individual who’s been a professional bodyguard, that’s been a five-time world female kickboxing champion, that’s been in life and death situations of all different kinds, real fights, bouncer, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

[44:55] This is some great information coming from an extremely credible individual. I hope you enjoy this run of segments, No More Mr. Nice Guy. It will debut next month on your NAPMA innovations DVD. And frankly speaking, if you’re not into that kind of thing, we certainly won’t be offended at all, just don’t watch it. Yeah, there’s plenty of other great stuff in the NAPMA package. I mean, the package is just loaded with goodies. So if you’re not into that kind of thing, or if you’re easily offended, or if you don’t like, you know, hardcore reality self-defense training, just don’t watch it. It’s very simple.

Okay, in your experience, what are some of the main things that separate a good fighter from a great fighter?

A good fighter is somebody who tries. A great fighter is somebody who overcomes whatever adversity is in front of him and figures out a way around it and beats him.

Very good. Another thing here, the NAPMA members are among the first to hear about this right now, but you’re working on a new film. And that film is called The Way of the Warrior. Sounds very interesting to me. And incidentally, you’ve already received a letter of commitment for around $3 million from one firm that you’re talking to. Tell us just a little bit about the storyline and your vision for this film. Okay. The storyline is about a female kickboxing champion who’s at the end of her career. She’s getting to the point where she really should be retiring. She gets killed by her trainer husband. And it’s about the journey that she takes suspended in the last two beats of her heart. So she goes into a realm, another world realm, almost like purgatory, where she has to fight her way to heaven, fight her way to paradise.

And once she gets there, she has the choice of either becoming omnipotent or going back to those last two beats of her heart in her life. Hm. And either finding revenge or doing something. Hm. Very interesting, very interesting. I wish you much success with that project. And when the time comes to where we can show some of it to the NAPMA members, maybe as a little bonus clip on their DVD, I’m sure everybody would enjoy getting a sneak peek of that. Keep us posted on that, please. Oh, I definitely will. Fast question. What’s the worst injury you’ve ever received in the martial arts?

There have been so many. I think perhaps the most debilitating that put me out of commission for the longest was my torn calf muscle. And when I tore it, I tore it cross fiber.

So it’s the sort of thing that took almost a year and a half to finally do it. Wow, that was- And that was with constant physical therapy. Oof. And ultrasound and everything else. So it was a really nasty tear. Ooh, that sounds really nasty. Have you been knocked out?

I’ve been knocked out. I’ve been choked out. I’ve been, I’ve had, you know, broken toes, broken shin, broken ribs, broken fingers, broken hands, broken nose four times. – Yep. – Been there, done that, right?

[48:13] Yep. Now in this month’s NAPMA Innovations DVD, we’ve included some bonus fight footage of you fighting Kyoko Kamikaze. Yes. One of the many fights we could have put on, but we just chose that one. Tell us something that sticks out in your mind about this fight and the one valuable lesson that NAPMA members should take away from it. One of the things that really sticks out in my mind in this fight in particular, it was my fifth world title fight. And my trainer was giving me just the unbelievable amount of pressure. There were two other world title fights on the card. And he kept telling me, you can’t just be good for a female. You’ve got to be better than these other guys who are world champions. And they’ve been world champions for years. And he kept telling me I had to be better than them.

So the pressure was unbelievable. There was, the training for that was, there were three minute rounds instead of two minute rounds. So he just doubled everything that I had to do, which was intense to begin with. So for me, when I got in that fight, I’m a slow starter. I like fighting 12 rounds and getting warmed up at around five or six. So I had to completely change my game plan and my fight plan. I had to do everything that wasn’t comfortable for me. And on top of that, I had to look better than these other two guys who were world champions. So the pressure was intense in that respect. And when I got in the fight, well, let me back up. We were each allowed via the contract that we signed previous fight tapes of each other.

She was allowed to see two or three of my fights. I was allowed to see two or three of her fights. okay. So when I got the copies of her fights, she would fight and I timed these rounds, Rob. They were five minute rounds and she was punching nonstop, punching and kicking nonstop for five minutes. Oh my God. And each fight that she sent me, her opponent would not come out for the second round because she had been hit too much. She decided I’d had enough. On all three tapes?

On all three tapes. Oh, okay. Needless to say, I was under a crap load of pressure. Wow. And this was an undefeated fighter from Japan. Yes. Yeah, yeah, okay. Yes. So you went into this fight with the pressure of having to look better than the other champions that were on the card, as well as in your mind, this girl was practically unbeatable. Yes, but you know, you say other champions, other guys. Other guys. I was the only female on the card. I was the only female fight on the card. And I had to look better than the guys on the card. Okay. The other world champion. So in that respect, it was almost an impossible task. So what’s the lesson that you took home from all that?

Again, never judge a book by its cover. – And the reason I say that is because Kyoko Kamikaze went to the weigh-in with me. She weighed in a t-shirt and shorts. I weighed in a bikini and I was 124 pounds solid muscle shredded. And I had about a 5% body fat. Phew. A lot of people tell you it was very unhealthy and at the time it was, but it didn’t matter because that’s what I had. From all the training and the lack of eating and everything else, some body fat just went down to nothing. – So she must- She looked at me and decided right then she’d lost her fight. Oh God, really. She decided she lost the fight because she looked at all my muscles and decided, oh my God, I can’t beat that. – Can you imagine that?

That’s amazing. And you judged the book by its cover. I mean, well, I was expecting somebody to come running at me like she would in her fights, her previous fights, and she didn’t, but you’ll see that. Yeah, yeah, and we’ve got that footage on the DVD this month for anybody that’s interested. We’ve put some excerpts on there and I must say it was quite a nice lesson in kickboxing that you gave that young lady. Onward and upward here, many NAPMA members have had you out to their schools for seminars over the years and consistently they tell me that you gave them one of the best seminars that they’ve ever hosted. And I know when you were here in town doing that seminar for Henry Hyde, he was just ecstatic about it. Yeah, he’s a good guy.

[52:40] Now, I know you’re really busy, especially with your Way of the Warrior film project, but how many seminars will you be able to do for the NAPMA members in 2008, approximately?

I think realistically I’ll have time for about eight or nine of them. Oof, eight or nine, that’s for the entire year?

Yes. Okay, that’s not many. And we’ve got over 1,500 NAPMA member schools that are gonna be receiving this interview this month. So, that having been said, if you’re interested, you should immediately, and I do mean immediately, go to napma.com forward slash Kathy Long to find out more. We’ve got a little webpage set up that tells you a little bit about Kathy’s seminars and what the arrangements are. And on that note, I know that you are being extremely generous to knock $500 off your normal fee if someone is an active NAPMA member. Is that accurate?

Absolutely. NAPMA has been so good to me, how could I possibly not?

I love to teach and I love the opportunity. Yeah, and this is not something that you have to do to discount your fee by that much money. And we’ve kind of made this arrangement with you for the benefit of NAPMA members who are looking to have a celebrity come out to their school, teach them seminars, sign some pictures. And in fact, on that note, just briefly, give us a little idea of what one of your seminars is like. I mean, do you sign pictures for the students?

Do you take photographs? I know some celebrities don’t like doing that. How does it go?

I don’t really see myself as a celebrity, but in my seminars, I’m happy to bring photos to sign, take photos, and if anybody wants to make copies and send them to me, I’ll send them back, signed. I also like to videotape my seminars and give them a copy of it so that they can refer to it and practice. You know, that’s one of the big pet peeves I have about teaching seminars. And oftentimes, I’ll go and teach a seminar, and if it doesn’t get recorded, they won’t continue practicing what they’ve learned. And if I were to be invited back again for maybe a phase two of that seminar, then I have to start from scratch again. So I like to videotape it, and I bring a camera, and I’ll give them a copy of the DVD so that they can refer to it and practice it, and then continue on to the next phase if they wanna do that.

That’s excellent. And in your seminars, and I’ve been to many of them over the years, dating back into the, goodness gracious, the mid-90s, I’ve seen you teach everything from goodness gracious, self-defense to CDT, to Kung Fu San Su, I’ve seen you do weapons, self-defense, kickboxing, Muay Thai. Is that about right?

Yes, yes, that covers quite a bit of it. Okay, you’re pretty well-rounded in all areas of fighting self-defense. I’d try to be. And also, I think an outstanding role model for females who are in the martial arts and want to excel as a fighter and have another female to look up to. So again, if anyone’s interested in getting one of those eight or nine seminars Kathy’s got for the remainder of the year, go to napma.com forward slash Kathy Long and go ahead and send your application in. It’ll come to the NAPMA office, we’ll review it. Someone will contact you, we’ll determine if you qualify, and then we’ll put you in direct communication with Kathy at that point. Fantastic, I mean, this has been a great interview. And Kathy, one of the things that I always ask my guests here as we conclude these interviews on the sounds of successes, what’s your personal Kathy Long, super duper definition of success?

[56:47] Well, that’s a good question. You know, to be happy, but not just happy, but to know that you’re gonna be okay no matter what. You know, if you’ve got the, if people respect you, if children like you know, it’s the sort of thing where, you know, I know that when I go to teach class, kids are happy to see me. That to me speaks of success. If I can face something horrible in my life and still teach the good aspect of it, if I, you know what, this is absolutely true, Rob. If somebody anywhere in the world breathes easier, or is better off because I’m alive, that’s success. Wow, very beautifully put, Kathy. You know, I’m glad that you said that because a lot of people might say, you know, I used to have a Rolex watch or to be driving a Ferrari.

That’s very touching. And I can sense that came directly from your heart. So thank you for sharing that with us. And thank you so much for this amazing and truly one of a kind type interview here on the sounds of success. I would have to say that to the best of my knowledge, this is the first time you’ve publicly shared many of the things that you shared in the interview today. And I’m glad that our friendship has reached the point where you were comfortable to do that because it truly was intriguing to find out, you know, the fabric which makes Kathy Long up. This has been amazing. And I hope to have you back here as a guest on a future SOS CD. But in the meantime, we’re gonna kick in with this No More Mr. Nice Guy DVD series starting next month.

So we’ll be seeing a lot more of Kathy Long through the NAPMA organization starting now. Kathy, thank you so much. My pleasure, Rob. It’s been, you know, you’re such a dear friend. I’m very grateful and delighted that you’d like to speak with me. Oh, well, great. And I’ll be seeing you real soon, okay?

Have a great day. And what can I say, ladies and gentlemen, the one and only Kathy, the Punisher Long. You take care. You too. Okay, bye-bye.