Jay Abraham: Martial Arts Marketing with a Master

We started selling training programs and expensive tape programs and born and all the books and things like that. And so I sort of migrated into it. Well, you’ve had an illustrious career and it just seems to be getting better and better every day. And in fact, you’ve consulted with practically every type of business known to man, including martial arts schools, what do you think are some of the weak spots in martial arts marketing, and what can school owners do to overcome those weaknesses?

That’s a really barbed leading question, but I’ll do my very best, Rob, to try to answer it in an instructional way that anybody can really gain from. First thing is you’ve got to understand from the get-go what a, I’ll call it a client, what a student, what a, whatever reference mode you have is worth. To the school, to your business over the course of their expected life. Most people don’t look at marketing or advertising in the right light. They say, I’m going to spend $1,000 a month. They’re going to spend 5% of sales. That’s ludicrous. You’ve got to figure out for every blank lead you get or free trials you get or four week, you know, cheap, you know, cheap trials that you get, how many convert to a 500 or a thousand or $2,000. student and how many of those students go for a year or two or three and until you know what the cumulative implications of everybody coming through your system are in dollars and cents, you don’t know how much you can afford to invest, not spend, but invest to bring people in.

So I call that marginal net worth of the lifetime value. You gotta learn that first of all, that’s the first thing. Second of all, you gotta learn that marketing is a continuous strategic process. It’s not an episodic. Tactical process. Everything has to be designed to advance, enhance and achieve a continuous progressive goal. Most people in your field are at best episodic. They are totally tactical. They run ads that don’t make any sense. They don’t run things continuously. They don’t understand any of the process of integrated marketing. When you understand that, it makes you many times more successful, very quickly, probably not in a day, but over six or nine months, you can double, triple. It’s quadrupled 10 times your results, and it can be quite profound. The next thing is you must be able to clearly, definitively, immediately define, describe, and articulate what your unique selling proposition is.

You must be able to explain instantly to somebody the reason why, the key is reason why, right?

They are foolish not to avail themselves of your school, of your training, of your courses. And I can get deep in this, but it’ll take too long. The next thing is you’ve got to be able to systematically, strategically, and continuously mine and harvest a constant and a qualitative flow of referrals. And it’s not episodic and it’s not intermittent. When I look at companies in all fields, but in that field particularly, I’ll say, well, how much of your business comes from word of mouth?

[04:29] Or from referrals. And I would say unless you’ve got a terrible school, unless you’re really abrupt and rude and coarse and callous with your students, most schools would probably have somewhere between 20% and 100% of their business, of their students, of their clientele emanate from referrals or word of mouth. Wouldn’t you think, Ron?

And what is the average size school? I mean, what is it in annual?

Average size school is probably about 110 students. But in the NAPMA organization, we work with everybody from the small time instructor to people that are doing millions a year. Would you say that reasonably a school that does $200,000 a year is average, low, high?

I’d say that’s about average. So let’s say they’re doing $200,000 a year. Let’s say that 40% comes from referrals. Is that reasonable?

It depends on the school. Some people we know have eliminated most of their advertising, and they’re just getting most of their new students from referrals. Other people report the emphasis. It should be. You can have a by referral only business that virtually dispenses with advertising, but in order to do that, you have to be very strategic in your ability to structure proactive, systematic, formalized, continuous referral, and assisting with systems. But back at the ranch, let’s say it’s 40%. What I ask people when I meet with them, if I had all your listeners in a room, I’d say stand up if at least 40% of your business is referral generated. They all stand. And 40% of 200, if that’s the average, is $80,000. And incrementally, you could argue that’s almost all profit if the rest of the business is coming from your advertising.

But I’d say stay standing if you have in place at least one formalized, systematized, ongoing referral generating system that really is worked every day, all the time, in every scenario with all your students, including positioning them from the beginning that your business is based on referrals and what’s new after you teach them what you promised to be see the transformation to get the conference they get the ability to get the character built it gains more attributes they agreed that from the beginning that they were referred to a three like-minded families friends parents children whatever unless you have at least one system in place you get most of it at one they do it to get that they did just do the through or or organic growth, which is stupid because we studied actually 70, 137 unrelated industries.

And what we found is a concept that’s as common as dirt rock in one industry can have the power, the profitability, the preemptive capability, meaning it blocks everybody else. The preeminent capability, it lost you to such a high stature of an anabop if you’re the first of a one to use it we found ninety three unrelated I think I’d duplicate excuse me referral generating systems that almost nobody knows about that you could you don’t use ninety three but most companies most martial arts schools don’t even use one regularly if you used five or six double triple quadruple your clientele in the kind of clientele that emanate from a referral rob they close quicker they argue, negotiate fees less, become more often, they’re more qualitative, they’re more enjoyable, they reformer people, and they’re far more profitable. Yeah, the least expensive and highest quality source of new business.

That’s sustaining future business. But yeah, so you guys give me some of the things I would say to martial arts. I would say if you’re going to run ads, make sure the ads are designed to be direct response. Make sure you know what your goal is. Make sure that they’re designed to be focused strictly on the reader and what’s in it for You, the reader, make sure that you have a call to action. Make sure you have some offer of information or an experience or an observation or something that will really give them a benefit relative to some area of their life or their family’s life they’re looking to reach. Like, you know, you want to transform your child’s confidence. You want to, you know, you want to find a way to build your health, reduce your stress.

[08:31] You know, open your mental acuity and have a great time to boot, or whatever it is. -got us some benefits. But does that help?

It really does. In fact, while we’re talking about advertising, Jay, what are your thoughts on Yellow Page ads, since this is really one of the most common ways that martial arts school is advertised?

I think Yellow Pages can be useful, semi-colon, however. Most people run terrible Yellow Page ads. They don’t really, they’re static. They don’t really understand. You got… Somebody’s going to look in there when they’re looking to take action. If you’re going to take action, what you want to do right away with the headline, the headline is 80% to 90% of the whole impact of any ad you run, including a yellow page ad. The headline is the ad for the ad, the difference in one headline in another, or no headline. Half of them don’t have a headline. The rest of them have headlines that have terribly weak, tepid, anemic, self-serving headlines or just Declarative, not benefit-oriented headlines. The difference between the right benefit-oriented headline and the wrong one can be 21 times more or less effective. Amazing. 2,100% greater yield from the same expense.

And most people don’t have anything in their headline to denominate what’s in it for me when I’m perusing 20 or 30 of them. If it said, hey, we’ll turn you into blank or it’s free. we’ll let you experience it before you ever have to pay, or we’ll get you and your kids whatever the benefits are. You’re selling benefits, you’re not selling features, and it’s like, what people don’t realize is there’s a concept, Rob, called the you attitude. It’s not you, it’s that when I’m working for a client, I don’t care about the client’s needs or desires, I care about the people they’re trying to serve. It’s all about them. It’s not about the client. The client is enriched only after they fulfill, satisfy, enrich, enhance, protect, expand, entertain, whatever the protect, whatever the service, the product or service is rendering.

And you’ve got to realize that. Now a minute ago, Jay, you were making reference to the unique selling proposition. And this is one of the first things that actually you ever taught me when I was studying your work. In your own words for our audience today, what is a unique selling proposition and why should every martial arts school owner create one?

Why don’t I do it rather than explaining it in a technical or academic sense?

Why don’t I demonstrate it? You know how when Federal Express first started, there was a bunch of undependable and very unprofessional, you’re probably too young, you sound beautiful. You found me out. I’m in my 50s and when Federal Express for first came out was a really gruff, scruffy, undependable environment. They came out and said, when it absolutely, positively has to be there overnight by 10 a.m., FedEx, guaranteed. When pizza was only available if you called it, came to the store and picked it up, Domino’s came out and said, hot, fresh, delicious pizza delivered to your door in 30 minutes or less or it’s yours free. When Nordstrom’s, I don’t know if you have Nordstrom’s where you are. Yes, we do. Nordstrom’s came out, they built their whole business on a very simple positioning, unique selling proposition.

It was if you are dissatisfied with any purchase for any reason at any time in the future, you can have a refund, you can have a credit. Or you can have a replacement, no questions asked. When Avis came out, they were not the leading company, they were smaller, they weren’t as well known, and they said, we’re number two, so we have to do more and try harder. That’s a unique selling proposition. Does that make sense to you?

[12:22] Indeed it does. Let’s shift gears for a moment, Jay. Like any membership-driven organization, a martial arts school, they’re always constantly trying to enroll new members, but in a cost-effective manner. What are some of the low cost marketing strategies that you believe would work well for instructors that are on a limited budget?

Well, again, I’m going to go back to what I said at the beginning of this interview. Cost effective is a relative term. If you find out that every time you get 10 people to start an experience, four of them convert, the average person spends $2,000 a year and stays four years in those, what did I say, four people or two?

Four. four times two times four is eight times four is thirty two thousand dollars you could probably afford to spend a non-consequential amount of money to bring them in couldn’t you?

Well it depends on your expenses. Well know what they’re worth because most people don’t. And also know incrementally that if tomorrow morning you got you know 200 students and I added 30 more to you if you came to me and said Jay if I could get you 30 more students that were going to stay for three years but you had to give me a hundred percent of the first year Really, a student business person who understands the financial dynamics could say, yes, I’m not saying that you’re a student, but you just understand that. And when you know what they’re worth, you know much more you can expend in either sales commission, joint ventures, et cetera. So I would advertise more, but more effectively, I would go to organizations that already have a strong affinity with the market and work out joint ventures with them now that you know what they’re worth.

You could have a deal where an organization invited all their members to come for special private classes or for, you know, a three or six month preview or a discount. You just want to get a lot of people started and your goal in life is to lower the barrier of entry, accelerate the buying process. So people get into the group faster and you start making more money for a longer period of time. It’s very logical, but most people in your field don’t, they’re very dedicated. They’re very, high integrity. Most of them, they’re very qualitative people. spiritual, they got incredible character, and they do a lot of good to build. Athletes training hard. Yeah, but I don’t think they get a clue about marketing and the business dynamics and how to really make a lot of qualitative and ethical money in this business.

And you’ve got to start by taking a deep breath and looking at dynamics like that. Well, on that note, on a scale of one to 10, say 10 being the best, how would you rate most of the martial arts print ads you’ve seen?

They’re not very good. And that’s not the right. Let me give you a little primer in lead generating 101. Lead generating 101 is about the quantity of people you bring in, the quality, the convertibility, the residual value, what they buy the first time, how long they stay with you. Most people that I have seen in your field don’t have any kind of strategic integrated systematic approach. Basically, we’ve found in all the clients we’ve worked with that today people need to be respectfully, benevolently approached numerous sequential times to maximize the yield. We did an experiment where we did a mailing to a list and pulled nothing. We did 25 subsequent communications over four months and brought $5 million out of the same list that didn’t do anything in the beginning. And what we’ve found is most people don’t understand the lead generating and conversion process.

You run a lead. You run an ad, you get leads. Some come in, some don’t. Some call, some don’t show up. Some try, some leave. Most people in your field feebly follow up or don’t follow up. They’re very superficial. They’re very limited. They’re very episodic in what they do. You have to have an integrated perpetual system because you’ll find that every time you communicate with them, like call, I just, I’ve got, I have a little business that sells five thousand dollar tapes at their expensive tapes we have it one program we’re doing right now eight thousand prospects every two weeks we send them a different communication at different form we sent them an email we sent them a letter we just did a telephone best to put it taxes every time we do we get another twenty people to buy five thousand dollars but we stopped it would be just devastating I did a seminar couple of months about nine months ago and I had I had like 700 people pay $5,000 to come was that the one in LA by chance it was we were there yeah okay so you were at it actually we were hosting our Natmo West show right next door and that was it that was a $25,000 one the one that you guys were next door to we were actually doing a $25,000 but we did a $5,000 one and we had we had just under 700 people and you can do the math it’s three and a half million dollars now that’s not

[17:03] What’s impressive, I wanted to prove to people the point I just made. I had done about 25 different sequences of communications, promotions, advancing, enhancing processes to move people through the migration path to closure. And every time I did one, I named everything I did and I had people stand up and go to the wall who were finally impacted to action by that. But I started with the first one that I did and about, let’s say there were 700 people, 50 people went to the wall. So instead of having three and a half million dollars in revenue, I would have only had a quarter million if I’d stopped there. I did the next one another 60 people, next one another 60, next one another. And what I’m making is most people in your field give up prematurely.

Well, here’s a scenario. I’m a martial arts school owner. I’ve got, say, a variety of different marketing strategies in place out there in the field. Roughly, how many times does a potential student have to hear my name or see my ad before they finally take action and call my school?

Until it stops being profitable. I mean, see, I believe in polarization. We believe in a philosophy called the power part, the non-geometric business growth. We believe in accessing a market from as many success as sustainable focal points as possible. We believe in advertising, strategic alliances, emails, joint ventures, space advertising, radio joint ventures, previewing. So you’re generating a lot of different leads from a lot of different sources. Because people today, it’s all important to the owners of the martial arts school, it’s nominally or modestly important to the adult or the student. And it’s very easy to procrastinate, equivocate. Ask yourself this question, Rob. In your life, are you married?

I am not yet, but I am engaged. OK, how old are you?

I’m 33. You live at home, or you live in your own apartment?

At home. OK. Do you have a car? Yes. Do you have any hobbies or interests?

Martial arts. Do you like, I mean, are you a snotty dresser?

Yes. OK. Is there anything in your life right now you’ve been wanting to do that you’ve procrastinated out from?

There’s a couple things. Right, going on a trip, getting a brochure about you know, a locale, maybe for this company, finding out about a new hotel to do a seminar and interviewing or monitoring a speaker, and you have a million things. Is it because you really weren’t interested?

Because it really isn’t somewhat important? Or because it was easy to procrastinate because it wasn’t top of mind awareness?

Exactly. The job is to keep your proposition. First of all, there’s two things, I’m going to give you that, is to keep it aware at a higher level than anybody else. Second is to understand the Baskin-Robbins. theory of marketing. It’s bullets, buttons, benefits, hot buttons. If the whole world just loved vanilla and chocolate, there wouldn’t be a Baskin Robbins, would there?

Got to have that variety. The variety translates to different stimulus, different reasons why people might be interested. You might write me and say, hey, how’d you like to have your character built?

[20:03] Well, maybe that appeals to some people. Then you write me again or communicate, Jay, you know, I know character building is important, but I bet health is important or event confidence is important. And you write me a letter saying, you know, a lot of people tell us the character and the competence is really, is really, high ranking, but they’re really loved the stress release. Another one might say, but do you see where I’m taking it?

It’s variety. Absolutely. It’s sequential. It’s sequentially dimensionalizing from as many different focal planes, all the, all the different combined reasons why somebody should take action. And as you know in our business people are always dropping out. What are some effective strategies that instructors can use for marketing to former students?

Well the first thing is to preempt it from the beginning. I’m going to say look, let me tell you what’s going to happen. Instead of dis-acknowledging the obvious, say let me tell you Rob, one thing’s going to happen and it’s normal but we’re going to do everything in our power [inaudible] the lifetime commitment value and payoff that is easy to get negatively habituated and go back. So what we’re going to do is from the get-go, let’s have a mutual understanding from the get-go that I have permission when, because not if, because I can guarantee in your life you’re going to have issues, they’re going to take you away, when and if you don’t come back in a reasonable period of time, I have your permission to follow up because we’re concerned. Because you’re not going to leave us for one of three reasons.

Either you’re going to have an interruption in your life, something’s going to happen that you get hurt or a family member is impaired or you’re diverted, or you’re either going to stop enjoying the process or stop getting value. If it’s the first or the second, we have an obligation to you to keep you getting benefit because if you’re stressed and you have problems, this is going to be the best thing you can do to overcome it. If we fail you, if we stop adding benefit, if you stop growing and progressing, if your stress level goes up, we we have to do, we have an obligation to you, first of all, correct it. Whether you stay with us or not. I mean, I would just have a preemptive position from the get-go. And to get those people back in class, would you use maybe a combination of telemarketing or direct-belt marketing?

Leave, I might give you this as very powerful. Okay. Attrition, which is inactivity. You get attrition for three reasons. Number one, they had an interruption in their life, has nothing to do with you. and they got negatively habituated. Number two, they had a bad experience they didn’t tell you about. Number three, they outgrew it. If it’s number one, just contacting them with heartfelt concern for their well-being, we’ll get half of them back. If they had a bad experience, you want to know about it, because unless you’re really a sadist or just Disrespectful. You would not normally consciously or purposely do that. So you want to do the right thing. And what you say to them now, and this is very powerful, you want to say, Rob, look, it’s important to me into this school that the last experience you had with us is a positive.

So if you had a bad experience, I insist that you come back and you train with our top person for the next four weeks on me. And if you never come back after that, at least you can say that the last, the last classes you did were great, because I don’t want it to be on my conscience that you had a bad experience. You do what it takes. If they have already outgrown you, the odds are they had a great experience. They just either got too old, they moved out of the area, maybe, you know, maybe, you know, for whatever reason something was changed, but they’re a great source of referrals. I mean, the key to this, Rob, is thinking and being and acting strategically, not practically. And you teach it, I mean, truthfully, martial arts is very strategic.

[24:12] We had in our program, your colleague and Phil Beatty. Yeah, he was wonderful. And he was, it was a strategy setting summit. It was $25,000 program where we were teaching entrepreneurs a little larger than your listeners or readers of your publication and your members, how to think, act and transact their marketing from a super strategic, fully integrated manner. And my analogy to him and he agreed was that martial arts teaches strategic thinking. Doesn’t absolutely just ask Joe Lewis. You should never do anything. Statically and tactically, it’s gotta always have an ultimate, an ultimate, it’s like setting it up for the next thing and the next thing. And my analogy is regular billiards. You understand what regular billiards are?

Not pocket billiards, but regular billiards is? No, regular billiards?

I know, pocket billiards is. Regular billiards, you play without pockets. And it’s all about positioning and strategy. I know. Everything is designed to set the ball up to the next shot. Interesting. Jay, I was studying your work in the mid-90s, and I recall that you believed very strongly in sending out long-form letters to potential customers. Has your insight into this changed?

Is there any different delivery methods that are more effective these days?

Sometimes. I think people are less focused. People can’t read as much. Sometimes you have to be summarized. But what hasn’t changed is that you have to tell a complete story. You have to focus on benefits, not features. People don’t buy features. They buy the benefits. An analogy we tell people is we use a real simple, I use metaphors and similes because they’re easy for people to remember. You go to a hardware store to buy a drill, you don’t really want a drill, what do you want?

You want to fix your problem. You want a hole. What do you buy?

You buy a benefit. People don’t bring me in because they want to pay somebody $5,000 an hour. They don’t come to my seminars because they want to pay $25,000 for a month. They want to learn how to make a triple. quadrupled 10 times more profit. They want to basically out position, out market, out compete. They want to basically double, triple, quadruple their income. They want to basically stop spending most of the money on marketing. And so you’ve got to sell the benefit, the benefit, the benefit. The world buys and treasures benefits, not features. And a lot of guys are trying to do that through television advertising. And on that note, what are some of the do’s and don’ts owners should keep in mind when television advertising comes into the picture. I would see if I could get two-minute ones, and I would have them talk about benefits.

I would make an invitation. I wouldn’t try to just be cute and clever. I would have everything be very, very serious, very benefit-oriented, better focused on an outcome and an action, an outcome and an action. Want to learn how, you know, again, you can have all kinds, and you can test each one and see which one pulls. You want to say, what are the easiest, most enjoyable way to lose weight, get your stress level down, have fun, and and get your mind clear, then consider spending four weeks with us at ABC School, and let us show you why martial arts is growing larger than anything else, and why more people stay in martial arts on a sustaining basis than anything else. And you can make a low price for free, but try a lot of different versions.

I would consider, if I were your people, doing a radio infomercial. I think it would be wonderful when they’re very cheap. and you really struck a chord here Jay, please talk to us a little bit about the importance of tracking your marketing results and keeping accurate business statistics. Well, I would say if you don’t measure, monitor, quantify and improve, then you shouldn’t be in business. One ad will out produce another sometimes by 21 times. One quality lead will out convert another sometimes by 10 times. One kind of lead will spend, you know, maybe 20 times more money. Maybe stay four years instead of four months. Don’t you want to know which ones those are because an ad that doesn’t look like it’s pulling great, maybe 10 times more profitable over forever. You won’t know that till you test.

[28:31] You won’t know what hot point pulls the best, not just on front end, which is just inquiry or free visits or cheap Try to open on the conversion unless you monitor, measure, quantify, compare, and really study. And the data will always tell you what to do. You don’t have to be omnipotent. You don’t have to be clairvoyant. You’ll be an incredible marketing genius to just let the market tell you by testing different suppositions and very carefully analyzing, monitoring, measuring, and always managing and keeping track of the data. Got it. Now someone who’s always on the leading edge, what advice concerning web-related marketing and using the internet in general would you give to martial arts school owners?

Well we have some very, let’s say, iconic classic views. We think having a website is very good, but we think having people call you is better. So we think driving people to a phone number is better than letting them do anything online. We think it’s really good that the website should start by having I shouldn’t just say, welcome to Rob’s website. It’s not about Rob, it’s about me. I only have a finite amount of time. I’m gonna stay or leave based on the proposition, the promise, the payoff that you telegraphed from the get-go. Do you understand that?

I do. So if I read it and you say, welcome to Rob’s website, I don’t give a damn. If you say, in the next three pages, we’ll explain to you 22 different ways you can improve your body, your mind, your stress level, your health, your character, your concentration, your stamina, your sexual prowess, your this, your that, guaranteed and introduced you to people who have had wonderful experiences and that make you an offer that is, that cost you nothing to find out. Let us transform you before you ever have to make a commitment. That would want to know more, wouldn’t it?

Absolutely. And it’s like we’ve been telling our members for years, you know, you got to sell the benefits. Jay, what are some simple tips and strategies that every school owner should know about direct mail marketing, one of your true areas of expertise?

Well, I don’t want to get too deep in this because it could be a, I mean, I could do three days on it. But first thing is, you know, there’s a simple formula. It’s also a sales form. It’s got AIDA. First thing is you got to get their attention. Normally, it shouldn’t be cute. It should be very benefit-oriented, self-serving to them. What’s in it for them?

[32:31] What else can I help you with, Ron? Well, Jay, before someone can begin to market more effectively and take their business to the next level, do they first have to adjust their current mindset?

Do they have to? Drop some of their baggage as they say or alter their psychology. Please elaborate a little. your members to get a copy of this. We’ve got a video and audio, but it’s called The Strategy of Preeminence. And it’s a very powerful, transformative, or transformative way of looking at the relationship you have with the people you serve. And it starts by seeing yourself as their most trusted, long-term, permanent advisor. And as that, you have an obligation, a moral responsibility to serve them in ways no competitor does. You don’t let them do what they shouldn’t. You don’t let them commit to less, do less. You don’t let them off the hook. You advise them what’s in their best interest. You treat them as a client, not as a customer. And the reason you treat them as a client, not a customer, is that if you look up in a world where everyone’s trying to turn you into a commodity, where consumers are trying to marginalize you, competitors are trying to minimalize you’ve got to be distinctive.

You’ve got to show the world that you are not just a good or a superior choice, but you are the only viable solution to a problem that they don’t even know they have, that you alone can verbalize, understand, and empathize. And then you’ve got to be able to treat them with a higher level of reverence and respect. If you call somebody a customer, if you look up Webster’s Dictionary’s definition of a customer, it’s somebody who’s under the care, excuse me, it’s somebody who buys a commodity or service. It’s very, very commoditized. You look up a client. somebody under the care, the protection, the well-being of another. It’s a very high level fiduciary responsibility. When you start realizing, it’s very consistent with what I think the fundamentals of martial arts ideological grounding is, but I don’t think that they don’t, a lot of times martial artists, they love their students, but I think the trick to this is you don’t fall in love with martial arts, you fall in love with your clients.

Live for their betterment. You live for knowing that every time they’re in your you know, you’re a scepter, their lives are better because of it. You know that they’re advancing, you know, they’re living better, they’re less stressed, they’re happier, they’re more confident, they’re characters built, they’re better husbands, they’re better fathers, they’re better students, they’re better teachers. It’s a longer explanation, but you have to have a mindset of being very analytical, very quantitative. You’ve got to have a mindset of being very strategic. You’ve got to have a mindset of maximizing all the ways of reaching something. You’ve got to realize it’s not episodic, it’s about continuous, constant, never-ending access to the market. You’ve got to realize that you’re not going to eliminate things from happening unless you pre-program them into your strategy, like attrition. Like, I mean, and you’ve got to look at things, but you’ve got to know what something is worth so you can know what you’re going to afford to invest in it.

It’s very simple when somebody like myself explains it, but it things people just for whatever reason don’t ever think about. Tony Robbins sometimes says common sense is not all that common. How else can I do it for you?

You are just so creative with your marketing efforts. Can you kind of explain to us on the importance of innovation and how it is that you’re just always thinking out of the box and being creative with your various approaches?

[36:09] Why is that so important? Well, it’s important for three reasons. Number one, and Peter Drucker, who most of you probably don’t even know, he’s the father of modern day management there. He said something very powerful. He said that marketing and innovation are the two things that make money in business. Everything else is an expense. Marketing basically attracts people, shows them, educates them, explains them the benefit, commits them to action. Innovation gives them the advantage, the superior payoff. I would add and say strategy. is really at the definitive. You change your market, you can change your results by 20 times. You change your strategy, you can instantly improve your results by 10 times. Most people aren’t strategic, and they don’t know how to market. Remind me what the question was, because I was going to roll, but I think I might have gotten a little tangential.

We work with about 2,000 schools here at NAPMA, and what we have found is that most schools are relatively unaffected by economic downturns. In your opinion, why do you think that is?

Well, let’s take a look at it. It’s probably, if that is in fact true, it’s because people are attracted to do better when they’re feeling good. They’re attracted to, you know, get relief when they’re feeling bad. So you probably have an equalizer, but I would say that the odds are also that people don’t demand enough. It should be more variance. There should be more variance, but it probably means they don’t market and they’re not strategic and sustaining of markers enough to let the variance works, which is basically they have accepted not mediocrity, but the lowest common denominator of sustaining result, if that makes sense. I would think it’s probably actually a negative, not a positive. How many people in your membership earlier are supreme markers and are very strategic?

It’s kind of tough for me to quantify that, but one thing I do know is that they come to us for help with that. And that’s one of the reasons they become a member, right?

Correct. It’s cool. But yeah, I think it’s going to be, the good news to know is a great quote that I would give you. It’s a quote by a really interesting man that I’ve worked with, and I’ve worked with hundreds of specialists in all areas of business, personal, peak, and optimal performance. His name is Bob Proctor, and he works with insurance people, but he’s got a really cool quote. He says, most people struggle non-verbally, they don’t even verbalize this, but it’s an obsessive question that they haunt them in business, and it’s the wrong question to ask. The question that haunts people is, am I worthy of this school?

Can I build my school to 500,000? Can I get 400 students?

Can I reduce my lapse or attrition rate? Can I create advertising that pulls better?

That’s not the right question at all. The question is, more is the goal worthy of me because when you study how much higher and better ways there are to bring people in to sustain them, to contribute, to monetize them ethically, to serve them, you probably, all your listeners, accept a fraction of a fraction of the results, of the yield, of the income. We start most of our group seminars with a provocative question. I say simply, is it possible?

That you’re unknowingly, unintentionally severely restricting and limiting, and then I say fill in the blank. The number of people who could contact you, the number of clients that you serve, the size of the transaction you do with, the duration they come to you, the number of other members of their organization or their family that could be served by you, the number of referrals you could get from them because you’re not really guiding them, you’re not really maximizing your marketing opportunities. And the people listening to this or reading it, whatever you’re going to do with this, they reflect on that because it’s a very profound and provocative question. And I do have actually one last question with your permission. And it comes from the director and developer of our new NAPMA squared program, Mr. Stephen Oliver. Steven asks, Jay, what would be your top three suggestions for schools to expand their market?

[40:27] And get a higher number of families to respond to their marketing efforts?

Well, I’m not sure that it’s going to be different than what I already said in filaments and other questions. But the first thing is have strategic integrated marketing that is cost predicated. Know what your allowable cost is for a lead or a conversion. and keep reinvesting. Number two is have multiple impact points that you’re accessing your community. Number three is focus, I’d say four things. Number three is focus more on what’s in it for them than yourself and give them an offer that is, you know, called to action that is irresistible and has almost no risk to it, a very high promise of a payoff that they can see in a short period of time. And then number five is get other organizations, institutions, publications, people to joint venture or endorsement. It’s a little more tricky than it sounds, but it’s very powerful and companies have been increased 10, 20 times over when they did that, but that’s what I would do.

Fantastic. Now for those of you looking to find out more about Jay Abraham’s treasure chest of products and services, please visit www.abraham.com. And on this note, Jay, which of your many products would you specifically recommend?

For martial arts school owners listening to this show today. Well, given the fact that most of them, I mean, truthfully, and this is not, I mean, if I never do a transactive one iota of business with them, that’s fine. But if you wanted my recommendation, which you’ve asked, I would say there’s two or three things they should do. If they have a modest budget, they should buy the Money Making Secrets book, which is about $377. And they can also call my office for it. It’s 310-265. eighteen forty number two it is a really need tapes that called cut two or three different titles we’ve tested different titles what other it’s called how to get from where you are to where you want to be it’s also called how to find it profits in your business is like a six week two-time a week night at a session consultative series with me that’s like five hundred dollars if you could afford it I would go to the next level and buy a home study of one of our $5,000 Mastermind Marketing programs because it’s very powerful.

And then after that, you can go higher and higher. But those are the basic things. And if you like, truthfully, anybody who wanted to email our office at apgi2, I think, at abraham.com. If you’re that or APGI want them. oblivious, I would also be happy to send them one of the interviews that Tony Robbins or Fran Tarkin did in me, which are very good. They’re very good. They’re very instructional. But, you know, it’s like the trick is it’s so much easier than you think. It’s very consistent to what everybody listening believes in, but they just have to do it. Rob. You just got to do it. It’s like there’s no secret. You just have to do it. It’s like everything else. The key to martial arts, you know, you don’t get to, let’s call it, first, second, third, fourth, fifth degree black belt status and stop and keep your proficiency.

Same thing with marketing and strategy. It’s a daily, monthly, continuously adhered to process and done right. It’ll be profound and wrong. You may make eke out of income and a living, but you’ll never achieve the impact, the success, and the contribution. that you have an obligation and a desire and an entitlement to really achieve. Jay, on behalf of the entire NAPMA organization, I want to thank you for taking the time out of your extremely busy schedule to help our NAPMA members around the world improve their marketing efforts as we blaze into 2004. And on this note, I know that your work has led to the creation of over 10,000 business success stories. And I truly hope… that your generous work here today will add even more success stories to your ever-growing list. It’s my great pleasure and thank you for the opportunity.

[44:40] I hope it makes sense until John keeps up the good work. Jay, I certainly will. Thanks so much. Bye bye now.